7 ms·
Man Allegedly Raped in Jail After AI Wrongly IDs Him as Suspect Despite Alibi
- fennecfoxy 3y agoInteresting that they make a point specifying "allegedly". I think all rape claims should be treated as allegations, of course. That's how justice works, figuring out exactly what happened. But articles with male victims have gone from not even calling it rape to now expressing it was "alleged". Other articles would just headline that someone was raped...
- paxys 3y agoSo it would be okay to rape him in jail if he was in fact correctly convicted?
- IanCal 3y agoNo, that's a terrible take on what's happened here. The headline is not only was he arrested but also raped.
- PaulHoule 3y agoIt is one thing to get arrested and spend some time in jail if you don't face a life-changing assault. It is another thing if you do.
- staminade 3y agoNo. Why do you think that? There's nothing in the article to suggest it.
- paxys 3y agoThat's the implicit assumption because a regular "man raped in jail" headline has never made it to the top of HN. People are only concerned here because (1) he was innocent and (2) AI was involved, otherwise the usual reaction from the public at large is "good riddance". If society as a whole is okay with prison rape then it is also occasionally going to happen to innocent people, and we have to be okay with that as well.
- kenjackson 3y agoBecause this is hacker news and not prison news.
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoIt’s a greater injustice that he is innocent, yes. That doesn't imply the inverse, a guilty person being raped, is justified. In the same way anyone being raped doesn’t justify another being petty burgled; one is just worse than the other.
- CogitoCogito 3y agoWasn't everyone he was with in pretrial detention? Hence none of them were guilty? That said I think any jail or prison officials are failing just as badly if their inmates are raped regardless of their convictions.
- xigoi 3y agoHow would the article be relevant to Hacker News if AI wasn’t involved?
- Karellen 3y agoHow many other news stories about the horrors of people being raped in jail have you read recently? And then one news story that does come up is "Isn't it terrible that this innocent person was raped in jail?". Not "Isn't it terrible that this person was raped in jail?" with the fact that they're innocent being in the 8th paragraph of the story. I think there's definitely an inference to be made that the author probably wouldn't have written the story if the victim didn't appear to be obviously innocent. Clearly implying that the rape of guilty people isn't quite as worthwhile commenting on. Because... that doesn't matter as much? The article doesn't have to explicitly suggest it. The fact that this article was written at all, when hundreds of articles about incidents which were similar in many ways except one, is suggestive enough in itself.
- enobrev 3y agoI don't disagree with your point, but this is a false premise.
- ETHisso2017 3y agoIn the future, they won't read you your bill of rights, they'll read you your terms of service
- iouwhldkfjgklj 3y agoHey that's a killer opening line for something.
- Galacta7 3y agoSounds like something Philip K. Dick would right. "Please scroll to bottom of Terms and click 'I Agree' to begin 7-day trial citizenship."
- jerf 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E - 'Welcome to Life: the singularity, ruined by lawyers'
- bevacqua 3y ago"A computer can never be held accountable, so has increasingly been used to make management decisions." — IBM slide from 1979. AI didn't wrongly convict anyone. People leveraging AI did.
- aredox 3y agoDo you have a link to a source?
- mikaoj85 3y agoThat’s not quite the correct quote. Source: https://twitter.com/MIT_CSAIL/status/1604884273789603842 https://twitter.com/MIT_CSAIL/status/1604884273789603842
- adhesive_wombat 3y agoI believe the 1979 original read "...Therefore a computer must never make a management decision". https://constelisvoss.com/en-gb/pages/a-computer-can-never-be-held-accountable https://constelisvoss.com/en-gb/pages/a-computer-can-never-b...
- bmitc 3y agoI think I actually like the misquote, as it's more powerful, although the original is more prescriptive.
- 3y ago
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoThe fact that all it takes is one company with a wrong ID to arrest someone is one thing. But that being taken to jail in America can result in violent prison rape (and worse, that it is often met with jokes and snickers) shows a very sad, disgusting part of our society. The article says he's suing EssilorLuxottica but I also hope he is able to sue the crap out of the government that incarcerated him.
- mc32 3y agoSadly, this is not a US-specific result. It happens in prison systems, not only in developing countries, but other advanced countries too. That said, it's not as common as portrayed in movies. Additionally, statistically most male-on-male sex in prisons is consented. For some proportion of the pop that engages in this consensual activity, may categorize it as rape to avoid stigma in their outside world group affiliation. In the pen the biggest threat is severe beatings.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoDo you have any sources/information to back up your assertions? I did some quick Googling and everything I found just talked about the severity of the problem in the US, though admittedly that could easily just because I am a person in the US searching in English. E.g. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/21/us-more-men-raped-than-women https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/fe...
- mc32 3y agoNo, no sources other than knowing people who know people in the pen. Also from what I've read here and there, so certainly things could be different in different locations.
- g-b-r 3y agoUS prisons are far more violent than in at least most developed world, and for deliberate policy (many politicians and normal citizens think it works as a deterrence, and it's deserved if you're an inmate). And I'd verify what percentage of that consensual activity began with a rape.
- ashleyn 3y agoHorrendous. If more people took seriously the idea they could be incarcerated on clerical errors, perhaps we would see long-overdue and long-needed reforms in our justice system.
- distortionfield 3y agoFully agree. Unfortunately, most people won’t even start to process it until it happens to them. Even if not “wrongly”, being jailed for a minor paperwork issue is scarring enough that I am hypervigilant about cops to this day, nearly a decade after my personal experience with the law.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> perhaps we would see long-overdue and long-needed reforms in our justice system Go to any HN thread about something bad happening and you’ll find people calling to throw folks in jail. We have a strong retributive instinct in America. There is compromise to be had around the mechanics. But without addressing that root cause, we’re going to be an incarcerative society.
- enobrev 3y agoSo many things went wrong here, on so many levels. Our systems are falling apart and we're not doing enough about it. We definitely shouldn't be relying on companies like this to fill the gaps.
- pixl97 3y agoI don't really want to take away from the point that this is a very bad incident, but, US law enforcement has always been this broken. There is nothing particularly new about this behavior other than the "+ AI" portion.
- par 3y agowe're truly living in a dystopian hell.
- distortionfield 3y agoBut at least we have Facebook and Instagram and DoorDash to keep us sated and complacent in the meantime /s
- rhplus 3y agoSo “AI” is the problem and not poor police processes and lack of oversight in crowded jails. Got it.
- TimPC 3y agoBoth are problems here but politicians in Texas write the laws in ways that try and protect the taxpayer often entirely denying victims the ability to sue negligent organizations. In this case there is a company without immunity that did something bad that put him where he got raped so he might actually have a chance at getting damages.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoTexas is all about might-makes-right brutality first.
- Cheer2171 3y agoMore than one bad thing can be bad at the same time.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoPolice are tools of the corporate elite to project their property. Anything to enable their laziness or cowardice is likely to be embraced, even if it's wrong because qualified immunity.
- lifestyleguru 3y agoThat's exactly the ethical and competence level I would expect from a company like Luxottica.
- serf 3y agothis isn't a failure of some private corporation, it's a failure that the infrastructure in place for judicial punishment listens to private corporations as if they were gospel.
- saagarjha 3y agoIt’s kind of insane that’s we have a justice system that’s so insane that it’s normal to receive “extrajudicial punishment” and that there are people who actively enjoy and secretly, and sometimes not-so-secretly, wish that this mechanism remains in place. (We should also probably not rely on AI to put people in that place.)
- pierat 3y agoIts common knowledge that in jail or prison, "Bubba over there will make you his bitch". And, this is not just tolerated, but endorsed. Its a way for inmates to keep inmates under control. But how fortunate, a man raping a man isn't actually "rape". Its just "sexual assault".
- MrStonedOne 3y agoa man raping a man is rape in most jurisdictions, its only when women rape men does it become sexual assault or "other sexual violence".
- BelleOfTheBall 3y ago> But how fortunate, a man raping a man isn't actually "rape". Its just "sexual assault". Why exactly are you making this statement in a thread based on an article that explicitly calls that act "rape"? It directly contradicts your argument.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- PaulHoule 3y agoFor me the school system was like that.
- jacquesm 3y agoYou were raped in school???
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y agoIf we just do something about this horrible facial recognition software, only the guilty will be raped in jail awaiting trial.
- verisimi 3y ago[flagged]
- Cheer2171 3y agoSo the story must be a lie because it advances a political narrative that you disagree with? You don't want AI legislation, so stories about harms of AI must be false? I've never seen such a blatant example of someone identifying their own confirmation bias, then using that confirmation bias as a reason to reject evidence.
- verisimi 3y agoNo. I have no idea if it's real or not. You assume it to be real, as if it unheard of for papers to run narratives that develop particular ideas.
- goles 3y agoThe story is almost assuredly real, at least in the sense things went wrong here. If you search the victims name, companies / courts involved the story is widely reported by reputable outlets. Apparently the victim, HPD, and the mayor have all been contacted for or given comments as well. Regardless, this is not the first time this issue[1][2] has been reported on and litigated. [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/04/13/facial-recognition-false-arrest-lawsuit/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/04/13/facial-... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/06/business/facial-recognition-false-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/06/business/facial-recogniti...
- drdeca 3y agoSometimes I think that every square inch within jail/prison buildings should be constantly under video recording so that if any rape occurs, there can be no question as to whether it occurred, so that the rapist can be executed with no risk of a false conviction. That’s probably not actually a sound policy, but, I think it is important to bring the average number of prison rapes per year to basically zero, very quickly, and this is the first thing I think of towards that goal. ... I suppose even with plenty of footage there may be the possibility of erring in determining whether it was consensual?
- xethos 3y ago> should be constantly under video recording That's what led to this exact instance. "More surveillance" is not the answer to everything.
- soco 3y agoEspecially because of the low quality of the surveillance process - error prone, abuse prone, never respecting the agreed boundaries, and and and. I believe the problems are not with the surveillance per se, but with the people ordering and handling it. But you can't have one without the other so yes I fully agree: more surveillance as a solution is just wrong.
- highwaylights 3y ago$10 million seems like very little for this man to be asking for under the circumstances.
- feverzsj 3y agoI thought AI is experimental at best. No serious job should be exclusively done by AI.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jMyles 3y agoOne of the things that "innocent until proven guilty" needs to mean is that pre-trial confinement is sufficiently comfortable, safe, and accommodating so as not to be confused for punishment, deterrence, or any other outcome of a judicial proceeding. Putting pre-trial detainees in the same population as convicted prisoners (ie, county jails) is very strange.
- charlysisto 3y agoI agree and think that's the main point of the story not AI, however questionnable it's usage may be
- rbetts 3y agoThis link includes the lawsuit's documentation and accuses more than negligent use of facial recognition software - including manipulating/pre-briefing an employee presented a photo line-up. https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/technology/2024/01/23/475288/man-falsely-accused-of-robbing-sunglass-hut-in-houston-suing-companies-over-use-of-facial-recognition-software/ https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/technology/2024/...
- bmitc 3y ago> The judge then agreed to dismiss the charges against him. > However, just hours before he was released from jail How does a person not just walk out of the courtroom after having charges dismissed against them? This case is harrowing. Also, there are multiple levels of failures here. Why is a person accused of robbery, who just had charges dismissed against them, in jail in the first place, and furthermore, why are they being housed with violent criminals? Why were they arrested purely on the basis that they look like someone, as determined by an automated system, with no further investigation or oversight?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> Why is a person accused of robbery, who just had charges dismissed against them, in jail in the first place, and furthermore, why are they being housed with violent criminals? Working backwards: robbery is a violent (or threat of violence) crime. That’s why we permit pretrial detention more liberally for those charged with it; to incapacitate the potential for more violence. As for why they can’t walk out of the court room, I agree it’s ridiculous. He may have had to claim personal effects at the jail and process exit paperwork. But that should be the jail’s responsibility to deliver to him, not the other way.
- m3kw9 3y agoWhat’s crazy is he(60) wasn’t even there for long and was already raped, it must be extreme bad luck or this occurs way more than is reported
- jacquesm 3y agoLikely the latter. It's a failure of the state that has people in custody that these things happen with such regularity that there are jokes about it and that those perpetrating it and those enabling it are not dealt with. Guards all the way up to the warden of the prison have a responsibility towards the inmates.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hammyhavoc 3y agoHappens all the time. A friend's ex-boyfriend was in the local jail overnight and was raped.
- Cheer2171 3y agoAnd if you're confused about how a system could even be deployed if the accuracy rate is so bad it leads to a majority of those identified as criminals being false positives... This can result from just measuring accuracy rates, instead of sensitivity and specificity or related error metrics. Say a classifier has a 99.9% accuracy rate for any given photo. If used to identify criminals, and if only 0.1% of the population are criminals, this will lead to a false arrest rate of 50%. It is a basic statistical fallacy literally called the prosecutor's fallacy, because it gets misued so much in criminal law, also called the base rate fallacy. 99.9% accuracy sounds high, and is above what state of the art performance is for noisy real-world surveillance data. But imagine this system is used on a city with a population of 1 million people. With an accuracy rate of 99.9%, the system will correctly identify a criminal as a criminal 99.9% of the time. But the actual proportion of criminals is, say, 0.1% or 1,000 criminals out of 1 million people. When the system scans all 1 million people, it correctly identifies about 999 of the 1,000 criminals (99.9% of 1,000). But here's the catch: it also mistakenly identifies 0.1% of the 999,000 innocent people as criminals. That's 999 false positives. So, the system ends up flagging nearly 1,998 individuals (999 true criminals + 999 false positives) as criminals.
- jacquesm 3y agoIndeed. The most commonly encountered example uses medical tests for cancer as the subject and it is one of the reasons why increased testing does not lead automatically to improved outcomes.
- gigel82 3y agoReminds me of Please Hold (a 2020 short, on HBO Max); here's a trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MTOyyKKCSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MTOyyKKCSg
- Teknomancer 3y agoI came here to find comments and I had hoped answers as to just how exactly a man walks into a DMV in Texas and gets arrested for a crime that occurred in California? Why is nobody asking this question?? It seems like that should be a substantial part of the story.
- Volundr 3y agoThe man was in California when the robbery occurred, therefore could not have committed it. The robbery did not occur in California.