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Prosperity is the most powerful propaganda of all. I think few (non-Chinese) people in the US/Europe really understand the dramatic changes that have happened

Prosperity is the most powerful propaganda of all. I think few (non-Chinese) people in the US/Europe really understand the dramatic changes that have happened in the last few decades. I have Chinese family members that grew up under literally starvation conditions, only to grow up to find themselves multimillionaires. When Deng Xiaoping went to Shenzen it was a basically a small fishing village, and he said he would make it prosperous and change China's future. It happened. China went from developing nation to second largest economic power in the world in a life time. For context I am not Chinese and not a fan of the CCP, but the zealous patriotism of the Chinese is not radically different than the zealous patriotism of American's in the immediate postwar period. When discussing propaganda with Chinese citizens, it's vital to recognize this first. They aren't brainwashed masses, they are largely people who were told outrageous promises by their government, and in fact government policy really made those things happen.

yieldcrv 3y ago
this matches my perception, the patriotism looks the same
rr808 3y ago
Yes that is all true, but much of it is CCP propaganda as well. https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/19/meet-the-chinese-internet-trolls-pumping-488-million-posts-harvard-stanford-ucsd-research/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/19/meet-the-chinese-intern...
- maxglute 3y ago
  Per the original study, 50centers limited to PRC internet, they're bureaucrats without english fluency hitting comment KPIs on domestic social media.
jongjong 3y ago
Very different from the west where leaders make mediocre promises of marginal improvements, then fail to deliver on those promises and then they create new significant problems which we didn't have before.
xialvjun 3y ago
You became a millionaire. But I, who had always ranked in the top ten in a small town of more than 100+k people before college, still did not own a house after working for 10+ years.
ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
> I have Chinese family members that grew up under literally starvation conditions, only to grow up to find themselves multimillionaires. The CCP was literally why they were starving in the first place
- SlightlyLeftPad 3y ago
  This is technically true but the Chinese viewpoint on this topic is net-gratitude for CCP taking control of their country back from foreign powers, particularly Japan, which murdered, tortured, and raped millions of people for years leading up to and during world war 2. Unlike Germany, Japan continues to largely pretend this never happened and has refused to publicly acknowledge or atone for it which perpetuates the political conflict there. This is something that is well understood in Chinese society and I think was personally fascinated that people were able to overlook the flaws and grave shortcomings of early CCP rule.
  - ffsm8 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    The PLA literally killed 500 thousand people in Changchun to liberate the city from the KMT. Mao and much of the past was a dead topic until Xi brought it all back to the forefront. I was really shocked that someone who suffered from the cultural revolution would worship Mao so much, even if he was effectively a princeling.
    - SlightlyLeftPad 3y ago
      Yeah, I don’t understand it personally and I was also similarly shocked.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        At least, after Xi, the last vestiges of Mao will be just history (the next Gen X Chinese leader will have been born after Mao died, or at least just a very little kid). This is why Xi becoming president for life was such a disappointment for me, I expect that the next generation of Chinese leadership will be much more modern (and Xi is the first monolingual/career politician leader modern China has had, hopefully that doesn't continue into the next generation).
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Chinese were much less patriotic in general 10-20 years ago. They would actually point and laugh at Americans saying they were smarter than that. Times changed a lot since Xi took office. Many are still cynically going through the motions (like when you have to take mandatory ideology classes in high school and college, lots of kids just used to use them for sleep but now they pretend to pay attention).

yieldcrv 3y ago

this matches my perception, the patriotism looks the same

rr808 3y ago

Yes that is all true, but much of it is CCP propaganda as well. https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global https://www.cfr.org/blog/chinas-internet-trolls-go-global https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/19/meet-the-chinese-internet-trolls-pumping-488-million-posts-harvard-stanford-ucsd-research/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/19/meet-the-chinese-intern...

maxglute 3y ago
Per the original study, 50centers limited to PRC internet, they're bureaucrats without english fluency hitting comment KPIs on domestic social media.

jongjong 3y ago

Very different from the west where leaders make mediocre promises of marginal improvements, then fail to deliver on those promises and then they create new significant problems which we didn't have before.

xialvjun 3y ago

You became a millionaire. But I, who had always ranked in the top ten in a small town of more than 100+k people before college, still did not own a house after working for 10+ years.

ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago

> I have Chinese family members that grew up under literally starvation conditions, only to grow up to find themselves multimillionaires. The CCP was literally why they were starving in the first place

SlightlyLeftPad 3y ago
This is technically true but the Chinese viewpoint on this topic is net-gratitude for CCP taking control of their country back from foreign powers, particularly Japan, which murdered, tortured, and raped millions of people for years leading up to and during world war 2. Unlike Germany, Japan continues to largely pretend this never happened and has refused to publicly acknowledge or atone for it which perpetuates the political conflict there. This is something that is well understood in Chinese society and I think was personally fascinated that people were able to overlook the flaws and grave shortcomings of early CCP rule.
- ffsm8 3y ago
  [flagged]
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  The PLA literally killed 500 thousand people in Changchun to liberate the city from the KMT. Mao and much of the past was a dead topic until Xi brought it all back to the forefront. I was really shocked that someone who suffered from the cultural revolution would worship Mao so much, even if he was effectively a princeling.
  - SlightlyLeftPad 3y ago
    Yeah, I don’t understand it personally and I was also similarly shocked.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      At least, after Xi, the last vestiges of Mao will be just history (the next Gen X Chinese leader will have been born after Mao died, or at least just a very little kid). This is why Xi becoming president for life was such a disappointment for me, I expect that the next generation of Chinese leadership will be much more modern (and Xi is the first monolingual/career politician leader modern China has had, hopefully that doesn't continue into the next generation).

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Chinese were much less patriotic in general 10-20 years ago. They would actually point and laugh at Americans saying they were smarter than that. Times changed a lot since Xi took office. Many are still cynically going through the motions (like when you have to take mandatory ideology classes in high school and college, lots of kids just used to use them for sleep but now they pretend to pay attention).