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Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I n

Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I noticed that the smallest moms at school at the biggest SUVs. They love the "might" that a huge vehicle gives them.

beretguy 3y ago
So… Rugged Women™, then.
practicemaths 3y ago
TBF Trucks and SUVs are relatively easier to drive in certain regards. Such as being able to see over parked traffic when making a turn. And I've found driving taller vehicles more comfortable for my back coincidentally.
- arwhatever 3y ago
  Until the parked vehicles also become taller
- mecsred 3y ago
  When you become the parked traffic, how does anyone see over you? Guess they need an even taller vehicle.
  - practicemaths 3y ago
    Yup. There's certainly a feedback loop. Just stating things that make these larger vehicles more easier to drive, especially for women whom on average are generally shorter so, even with pumping the seat up it's still considerably harder to see around traffic.
    - mecsred 3y ago
      I definitely get it. My girlfriend drives an SUV and I'd be lying if I said I never felt glad about that the way drivers and roads are out here. She's also been in an accident (with minimal injuries miraculously) where an SUV wrecked her E-bike in a pedestrian crossing because it "couldn't see" her. I find it important to continually bring up the fact that it can be different. More public transit and bike paths. If I we could take bikes around the city without worrying about being killed or having them stolen it would be a dream.
- pokerface_86 3y ago
  in no world does having a higher center of gravity, and much higher mass make a car easier to drive. i find them painful to drive because i feel so unstable and slow.
  - seabird 3y ago
    Your average American driver has no understanding of this and never will. There's a reason the goofball in the Tahoe XL that takes every corner at 5mph is fine with going 90mph on the highway; they truly have zero idea on how to assess the handling of a vehicle.
7e 3y ago
If you’re short, you prefer a vehicle which elevates your view.
- crote 3y ago
  If you're short, you can't see a damn thing over the hood of those vehicles. An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice.
  - astura 3y ago
    >An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice. This sounds like hyperbole but is actually not hyperbole - https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 I'm a short woman and drive a sedan.
dingnuts 3y ago
it's because they are mothers with >2 children. You cannot fit three car seats in the backseat of modern sedans, and station wagons don't meet the emissions requirements. Large SUVs meet CAFE regulations by being large enough to be regulated as a different class of vehicle. Want smaller trucks? Complain to your Congresscritter to reign in the EPA and force them to write better regulation that does not have these unintended effects.
- trgn 3y ago
  All true, also sad. That aside, how's the EPA responsible, not sure if I understand the connection?
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Trucks (and SUVs) don't follow the same emissions regulations as sedans/wagons. I don't know if that's just EPA policy or part of the legislation that allows them to regulate auto emissions. But, it's also Congress's fault for leaving the chicken tax in place (25% tariff on imported trucks/vans). This essentially allowed domestic brands to price gouge on trucks/suvs (as VW at the time, and then the Japanese brands as well) couldn't compete.
    - aidenn0 3y ago
      Toyota has plants in the US; I assume they make the Tacoma in the US, which should avoid the chicken tax?
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        Correct. The Tacoma and Tundra are assembled in the US so should avoid the tax. The Land Cruiser is still produced in Japan, so subject to the tax. Same for the Lexus GX (no Toyota equiv in US) and LX (rebadged Land Cruiser). The old mini-truck and T100 were made in Japan (except maybe a year or two at the end of T100 production). The tax was implemented in the 60s or 70s, as VW was trying to get into the van and truck market in the US.
trgn 3y ago
All true. _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. The web of interwoven incentive structures - reptile brains, cafe standards, cheap gas, safety arms race, ... - pushing _everybody_ towards larger vehicles is the problem. System and id are completely misaligned, killing thousands in the process.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  > _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. Roughly 18% of the light vehicles sold in the US in 2023 were pickup trucks. The top 3 selling models in the US were pickup trucks. Yes there were about 3x as many SUVs sold[1] as pickups, but pickups aren't nothing. 1: I partitioned the "light truck" class into just pickups and SUVs; 78% of cars sold in 2023 were classified as "light trucks" per [2]; I got the 18% figure for pickups by totaling the sales of the 8 most popular pickup models by hand and dividing by 14.9M 2: https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/ https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/
filoleg 3y ago
God, this is pretty much my mother. She couldn’t care any less about “ruggedness” or that “tough guy” image. Her only argument ever is “safety.” I am not in it to change her mind. But whenever she brings this topic up and I show her the actual safety ratings for different vehicles, it’s almost as if her brain shuts down. She would say something along the lines “uh oh idk, maybe, who knows, it doesn’t feel as safe,” and the whole thing gets forgotten. Right until she decides to bring it up again from scratch at some point later, as if our previous conversations about it never happened. Lowkey, I think it would be an interesting idea to mandate displaying brightly colored safety ratings for every car on display at a dealership. No need to overcomplicate it by showing the entire stat sheet with a bajillion different numbers. Just one giant number for the overall rating, and about 4-5 subcategory numbers (e.g., driver safety score, passenger safety score, etc.). I think 1-2 of those metrics should be “the safety sub-category on which our car scored the worst.” My only worry about this is that the metrics themselves become the target goal, leading to either car manufacturers influencing safety rating boards or them maliciously complying by gaming the metrics just for those measured categories at the expense of everything else. Though the latter isn’t as much of a concern, given that it is pretty difficult to accomplish, and it would still have a large negative effect on the overall score.
- matsemann 3y ago
  Every year, loads of kids die because a family member runs over them by accident in the driveway, a parking lot etc. With these huge cars, you don't properly see around them, and 360 cameras and sensors will not make up for all of that. So yeah, "safety".
  - filoleg 3y ago
    A lot of those car manufacturers just don’t care, and it isn’t exclusive to large cars either (though the damage they can do is obviously much higher, making them more dangerous to pedestrians). I like sports cars, so I tried test driving a Camaro about 5 years ago. You would think that visibility on a rather small and fast 2-seater would be at least better than on an average SUV. It was singularly the worst car I’ve ever driven in terms of visibility, compared to even most SUVs. Not even joking, it feels like driving a military tank, but just faster and smaller, with the field of view being extremely reminiscent of seeing the road through a thin horizontal slit. It’s not like it got worse over time either, because I remember the 2013 version was at least just as awful. Way to ruin a fine car with that tank-slit visibility. This specific case didn’t even have anything inherently to do with the type or size of the car (unlike with some giant trucks), so it made me extremely mad. It was quite literally for nothing.
drewcoo 3y ago
> Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman With tiny dogs. Maybe they're the preferred vehicle of tiny dogs.
- steve_gh 3y ago
  In the UK we call these "Chelsea tractors". 9lIe a large vehicle more suited to offload conditions being driven short distances round highly affluent areas by people who wouldn't know the countryside if it bit them on the arsenal.

beretguy 3y ago

So… Rugged Women™, then.

practicemaths 3y ago

TBF Trucks and SUVs are relatively easier to drive in certain regards. Such as being able to see over parked traffic when making a turn. And I've found driving taller vehicles more comfortable for my back coincidentally.

arwhatever 3y ago
Until the parked vehicles also become taller
mecsred 3y ago
When you become the parked traffic, how does anyone see over you? Guess they need an even taller vehicle.
- practicemaths 3y ago
  Yup. There's certainly a feedback loop. Just stating things that make these larger vehicles more easier to drive, especially for women whom on average are generally shorter so, even with pumping the seat up it's still considerably harder to see around traffic.
  - mecsred 3y ago
    I definitely get it. My girlfriend drives an SUV and I'd be lying if I said I never felt glad about that the way drivers and roads are out here. She's also been in an accident (with minimal injuries miraculously) where an SUV wrecked her E-bike in a pedestrian crossing because it "couldn't see" her. I find it important to continually bring up the fact that it can be different. More public transit and bike paths. If I we could take bikes around the city without worrying about being killed or having them stolen it would be a dream.
pokerface_86 3y ago
in no world does having a higher center of gravity, and much higher mass make a car easier to drive. i find them painful to drive because i feel so unstable and slow.
- seabird 3y ago
  Your average American driver has no understanding of this and never will. There's a reason the goofball in the Tahoe XL that takes every corner at 5mph is fine with going 90mph on the highway; they truly have zero idea on how to assess the handling of a vehicle.

7e 3y ago

If you’re short, you prefer a vehicle which elevates your view.

crote 3y ago
If you're short, you can't see a damn thing over the hood of those vehicles. An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice.
- astura 3y ago
  >An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice. This sounds like hyperbole but is actually not hyperbole - https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 I'm a short woman and drive a sedan.

dingnuts 3y ago

it's because they are mothers with >2 children. You cannot fit three car seats in the backseat of modern sedans, and station wagons don't meet the emissions requirements. Large SUVs meet CAFE regulations by being large enough to be regulated as a different class of vehicle. Want smaller trucks? Complain to your Congresscritter to reign in the EPA and force them to write better regulation that does not have these unintended effects.

trgn 3y ago
All true, also sad. That aside, how's the EPA responsible, not sure if I understand the connection?
- alistairSH 3y ago
  Trucks (and SUVs) don't follow the same emissions regulations as sedans/wagons. I don't know if that's just EPA policy or part of the legislation that allows them to regulate auto emissions. But, it's also Congress's fault for leaving the chicken tax in place (25% tariff on imported trucks/vans). This essentially allowed domestic brands to price gouge on trucks/suvs (as VW at the time, and then the Japanese brands as well) couldn't compete.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    Toyota has plants in the US; I assume they make the Tacoma in the US, which should avoid the chicken tax?
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Correct. The Tacoma and Tundra are assembled in the US so should avoid the tax. The Land Cruiser is still produced in Japan, so subject to the tax. Same for the Lexus GX (no Toyota equiv in US) and LX (rebadged Land Cruiser). The old mini-truck and T100 were made in Japan (except maybe a year or two at the end of T100 production). The tax was implemented in the 60s or 70s, as VW was trying to get into the van and truck market in the US.

trgn 3y ago

All true. _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. The web of interwoven incentive structures - reptile brains, cafe standards, cheap gas, safety arms race, ... - pushing _everybody_ towards larger vehicles is the problem. System and id are completely misaligned, killing thousands in the process.

aidenn0 3y ago
> _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. Roughly 18% of the light vehicles sold in the US in 2023 were pickup trucks. The top 3 selling models in the US were pickup trucks. Yes there were about 3x as many SUVs sold[1] as pickups, but pickups aren't nothing. 1: I partitioned the "light truck" class into just pickups and SUVs; 78% of cars sold in 2023 were classified as "light trucks" per [2]; I got the 18% figure for pickups by totaling the sales of the 8 most popular pickup models by hand and dividing by 14.9M 2: https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/ https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/

filoleg 3y ago

God, this is pretty much my mother. She couldn’t care any less about “ruggedness” or that “tough guy” image. Her only argument ever is “safety.” I am not in it to change her mind. But whenever she brings this topic up and I show her the actual safety ratings for different vehicles, it’s almost as if her brain shuts down. She would say something along the lines “uh oh idk, maybe, who knows, it doesn’t feel as safe,” and the whole thing gets forgotten. Right until she decides to bring it up again from scratch at some point later, as if our previous conversations about it never happened. Lowkey, I think it would be an interesting idea to mandate displaying brightly colored safety ratings for every car on display at a dealership. No need to overcomplicate it by showing the entire stat sheet with a bajillion different numbers. Just one giant number for the overall rating, and about 4-5 subcategory numbers (e.g., driver safety score, passenger safety score, etc.). I think 1-2 of those metrics should be “the safety sub-category on which our car scored the worst.” My only worry about this is that the metrics themselves become the target goal, leading to either car manufacturers influencing safety rating boards or them maliciously complying by gaming the metrics just for those measured categories at the expense of everything else. Though the latter isn’t as much of a concern, given that it is pretty difficult to accomplish, and it would still have a large negative effect on the overall score.

matsemann 3y ago
Every year, loads of kids die because a family member runs over them by accident in the driveway, a parking lot etc. With these huge cars, you don't properly see around them, and 360 cameras and sensors will not make up for all of that. So yeah, "safety".
- filoleg 3y ago
  A lot of those car manufacturers just don’t care, and it isn’t exclusive to large cars either (though the damage they can do is obviously much higher, making them more dangerous to pedestrians). I like sports cars, so I tried test driving a Camaro about 5 years ago. You would think that visibility on a rather small and fast 2-seater would be at least better than on an average SUV. It was singularly the worst car I’ve ever driven in terms of visibility, compared to even most SUVs. Not even joking, it feels like driving a military tank, but just faster and smaller, with the field of view being extremely reminiscent of seeing the road through a thin horizontal slit. It’s not like it got worse over time either, because I remember the 2013 version was at least just as awful. Way to ruin a fine car with that tank-slit visibility. This specific case didn’t even have anything inherently to do with the type or size of the car (unlike with some giant trucks), so it made me extremely mad. It was quite literally for nothing.

drewcoo 3y ago

> Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman With tiny dogs. Maybe they're the preferred vehicle of tiny dogs.

steve_gh 3y ago
In the UK we call these "Chelsea tractors". 9lIe a large vehicle more suited to offload conditions being driven short distances round highly affluent areas by people who wouldn't know the countryside if it bit them on the arsenal.