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I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it. My only negative with it has been t

I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it. My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time. On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact. With a start-up I was expecting some bugs. This one was irritating but not a deal breaker. I think how they handled the problem and how they've proven their commitment to upgradeability through the 12th, 13th, and Ryzen boards speaks well of the company. While I am extremely keen on the AMD versions that have rolled out recently, I can't justify the purchase when my current FW13 still works well enough. The FW16 probably isn't for me but I hope it's successful. I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module. There was a prototype mentioned in passing about a year ago but it's been radio silence since then. I hope the success of Framework laptops and the growing market for gaming handhelds like the Steam Deck makes the modular eGPU concept a little more reasonable. It's still incredibly niche but one can dream.

schmorptron 3y ago
It looks like the next-gen Zen 5 AMD cpus will be another large leap anyways, so not needing to upgrade now should make you even happier down the line! :)
ochoseis 3y ago
> On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact. IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). They must have a ton of brand equity / good will if customers are that willing to roll up their sleeves.
- spartanatreyu 3y ago
  > IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). Just remember, this flaw was on the one model right at the start of the company. Recalling the boards at that point (where the company probably wasn't making a profit yet) could have killed the company. Definitely not worth doing. But short of a total recall, they did the next best thing. They released detailed instructions on how to repair a laptop while having the schematics for the laptop be open, and going out of their way to design the laptop in such a way to make repair as easy as possible, and said that self repairs would not affect any warrantees. No other laptop manufacturer would have done that. That's why they are seen as good in the community's eyes.
  - baby_souffle 3y ago
    > > IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). > No other laptop manufacturer would have done that. > That's why they are seen as good in the community's eyes. Yep. We're not aiming for _perfect_ here. Framework just has to be better than the abysmally low bar set by (almost) every other laptop maker.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  If someone gave me the option between soldering it myself and having it repaired, I’d for for soldering too. I can do that right now, while getting it repaired means sending it back and forth.
- tomrod 3y ago
  Their help process included me taking several pictures and descriptions of wonky behavior for when graphics were glitching. Which was fine at the time, but would have preferred to just RMA the unit so I would have a working unit (we purchased to test for business use).
ncallaway 3y ago
> I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module Yes! As another owner of the FW13, if they released some kind of external adapter for the FW16 GPU I'd definitely purchase the GPU and the adapter the day its open for sale.
- nrp 3y ago
  We showed a proof of concept of exactly this actually at our initial launch event for Framework Laptop 16 last year. It's still something we see as an interesting use case to support, but we don't have a timeline around productization of it.
  - kellengreen 3y ago
    Framework 13 + GPU Dock would be my ideal setup.
  - PasteBinSpecial 3y ago
    Have you ever considered designing a steam deck / handheld form factor that could take old motherboards from FW laptops? Unsure how viable that would be, but it would help justify that proof of concept (imho). Would be really cool if the GPU could serve multiple devices across generations like that somehow, eventually. Buy one FW laptop, upgrade it, use the old parts for a new handheld, use the old GPU as a dock for that handheld when you get a new one for the laptop.
    - locusm 3y ago
      You mean like this? https://www.hackster.io/news/pitstoptech-s-framework-mainboard-powered-handheld-is-a-nintendo-switch-valve-steam-deck-mash-up-2bd37e53908d https://www.hackster.io/news/pitstoptech-s-framework-mainboa...
  - ncallaway 3y ago
    Well, I’ll be there when you get to it! I understand it’s a small company, and there must be a million priorities.
Rebelgecko 3y ago
I have mixed feelings. I bought mine hoping Framework would improve the SW (especially firmware and drivers) over time but that hasn't been the case. My 12th gen has issues with abysmal battery life while sleeping (not just the regular Intel 12th gen sleep complaints, but batt life varies greatly depending on which expansion cards you have on the laptop while sleeping eg USB-A vs -C). Framework has been beta testing a FW update to partially improve this since 2022 and last I checked the beta still had side effects like bricking the left USB-C ports under certain conditions. Even though Fedora is (afaict?) the best supposed Linux distro, there's still known issues that have persisted for years like the brightness keys not working (there's technically a workaround but it breaks a different feature that I would like to use) If the laptop as it is today meets your needs, go for it... but one shouldn't buy it assuming that known issues will be fixed later on.
- starkparker 3y ago
  > Even though Fedora is (afaict?) the best supposed Linux distro As someone who had a 12th-gen mainboard and upgraded to an AMD board, and assuming you meant "supported" here, the rest of the points here are fine but this one rather explicitly is off. Ubuntu is the primary supported distro across the board: https://frame.work/linux https://frame.work/linux Fedora was recommended for AMD mainboards when Framework started shipping them, because Fedora ships newer kernels sooner, which got upstream AMD compatibility fixes out faster, which meant Fedora users could install Framework's firmware, driver, and BIOS updates sooner with fewer workarounds. When Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS shipped a 6.2 kernel in August, it went back in front across mainboards.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    There isn't really anything on that page says Ubuntu is the primary supported distro and Fedora isn't. They seem to both be equally supported with no preference according to both the listings and the wording on the page.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
tomrod 3y ago
Your setup is identical to mine. We tested bringing them in for business use. On one, the graphics would randomly glitch. We replaced every part of the system except the screen and it would still glitch, so I replaced with Thinkpad. Just need a solid system. After two years of sporadic use, our engineer with Fedora+Framework gave it up as it started burning him (2nd degree)! Overall, I liked the experience and the mission, but was sad we've had the experience of glitch+burning.
0x49d1 3y ago
The owner of DIY FW13 12 Gen here. The only problem I've faced was fingerprint scanner: it just fell off (I don't know why, I've not done anything crazy to the machine, worked almost stationary). I've just replaced the button with sticky plastic rectangle and that's it: button works, fingerprint - no. But this is a minor issue really: overall this is the best laptop I've had considering that I also can upgrade it more cheaply in the future, I suggest almost everyone to consider this brand when searching for new machine.

schmorptron 3y ago

It looks like the next-gen Zen 5 AMD cpus will be another large leap anyways, so not needing to upgrade now should make you even happier down the line! :)

ochoseis 3y ago

> On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact. IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). They must have a ton of brand equity / good will if customers are that willing to roll up their sleeves.

spartanatreyu 3y ago
> IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). Just remember, this flaw was on the one model right at the start of the company. Recalling the boards at that point (where the company probably wasn't making a profit yet) could have killed the company. Definitely not worth doing. But short of a total recall, they did the next best thing. They released detailed instructions on how to repair a laptop while having the schematics for the laptop be open, and going out of their way to design the laptop in such a way to make repair as easy as possible, and said that self repairs would not affect any warrantees. No other laptop manufacturer would have done that. That's why they are seen as good in the community's eyes.
- baby_souffle 3y ago
  > > IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). > No other laptop manufacturer would have done that. > That's why they are seen as good in the community's eyes. Yep. We're not aiming for _perfect_ here. Framework just has to be better than the abysmally low bar set by (almost) every other laptop maker.
Aeolun 3y ago
If someone gave me the option between soldering it myself and having it repaired, I’d for for soldering too. I can do that right now, while getting it repaired means sending it back and forth.
tomrod 3y ago
Their help process included me taking several pictures and descriptions of wonky behavior for when graphics were glitching. Which was fine at the time, but would have preferred to just RMA the unit so I would have a working unit (we purchased to test for business use).

ncallaway 3y ago

> I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module Yes! As another owner of the FW13, if they released some kind of external adapter for the FW16 GPU I'd definitely purchase the GPU and the adapter the day its open for sale.

nrp 3y ago
We showed a proof of concept of exactly this actually at our initial launch event for Framework Laptop 16 last year. It's still something we see as an interesting use case to support, but we don't have a timeline around productization of it.
- kellengreen 3y ago
  Framework 13 + GPU Dock would be my ideal setup.
- PasteBinSpecial 3y ago
  Have you ever considered designing a steam deck / handheld form factor that could take old motherboards from FW laptops? Unsure how viable that would be, but it would help justify that proof of concept (imho). Would be really cool if the GPU could serve multiple devices across generations like that somehow, eventually. Buy one FW laptop, upgrade it, use the old parts for a new handheld, use the old GPU as a dock for that handheld when you get a new one for the laptop.
  - locusm 3y ago
    You mean like this? https://www.hackster.io/news/pitstoptech-s-framework-mainboard-powered-handheld-is-a-nintendo-switch-valve-steam-deck-mash-up-2bd37e53908d https://www.hackster.io/news/pitstoptech-s-framework-mainboa...
- ncallaway 3y ago
  Well, I’ll be there when you get to it! I understand it’s a small company, and there must be a million priorities.

Rebelgecko 3y ago

I have mixed feelings. I bought mine hoping Framework would improve the SW (especially firmware and drivers) over time but that hasn't been the case. My 12th gen has issues with abysmal battery life while sleeping (not just the regular Intel 12th gen sleep complaints, but batt life varies greatly depending on which expansion cards you have on the laptop while sleeping eg USB-A vs -C). Framework has been beta testing a FW update to partially improve this since 2022 and last I checked the beta still had side effects like bricking the left USB-C ports under certain conditions. Even though Fedora is (afaict?) the best supposed Linux distro, there's still known issues that have persisted for years like the brightness keys not working (there's technically a workaround but it breaks a different feature that I would like to use) If the laptop as it is today meets your needs, go for it... but one shouldn't buy it assuming that known issues will be fixed later on.

starkparker 3y ago
> Even though Fedora is (afaict?) the best supposed Linux distro As someone who had a 12th-gen mainboard and upgraded to an AMD board, and assuming you meant "supported" here, the rest of the points here are fine but this one rather explicitly is off. Ubuntu is the primary supported distro across the board: https://frame.work/linux https://frame.work/linux Fedora was recommended for AMD mainboards when Framework started shipping them, because Fedora ships newer kernels sooner, which got upstream AMD compatibility fixes out faster, which meant Fedora users could install Framework's firmware, driver, and BIOS updates sooner with fewer workarounds. When Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS shipped a 6.2 kernel in August, it went back in front across mainboards.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  There isn't really anything on that page says Ubuntu is the primary supported distro and Fedora isn't. They seem to both be equally supported with no preference according to both the listings and the wording on the page.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

tomrod 3y ago

Your setup is identical to mine. We tested bringing them in for business use. On one, the graphics would randomly glitch. We replaced every part of the system except the screen and it would still glitch, so I replaced with Thinkpad. Just need a solid system. After two years of sporadic use, our engineer with Fedora+Framework gave it up as it started burning him (2nd degree)! Overall, I liked the experience and the mission, but was sad we've had the experience of glitch+burning.

0x49d1 3y ago

The owner of DIY FW13 12 Gen here. The only problem I've faced was fingerprint scanner: it just fell off (I don't know why, I've not done anything crazy to the machine, worked almost stationary). I've just replaced the button with sticky plastic rectangle and that's it: button works, fingerprint - no. But this is a minor issue really: overall this is the best laptop I've had considering that I also can upgrade it more cheaply in the future, I suggest almost everyone to consider this brand when searching for new machine.