10 ms·

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Th

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

KennyBlanken 3y ago
Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I noticed that the smallest moms at school at the biggest SUVs. They love the "might" that a huge vehicle gives them.
- beretguy 3y ago
  So… Rugged Women™, then.
- practicemaths 3y ago
  TBF Trucks and SUVs are relatively easier to drive in certain regards. Such as being able to see over parked traffic when making a turn. And I've found driving taller vehicles more comfortable for my back coincidentally.
  - arwhatever 3y ago
    Until the parked vehicles also become taller
  - mecsred 3y ago
    When you become the parked traffic, how does anyone see over you? Guess they need an even taller vehicle.
    - practicemaths 3y ago
      Yup. There's certainly a feedback loop. Just stating things that make these larger vehicles more easier to drive, especially for women whom on average are generally shorter so, even with pumping the seat up it's still considerably harder to see around traffic.
      - mecsred 3y ago
        I definitely get it. My girlfriend drives an SUV and I'd be lying if I said I never felt glad about that the way drivers and roads are out here. She's also been in an accident (with minimal injuries miraculously) where an SUV wrecked her E-bike in a pedestrian crossing because it "couldn't see" her. I find it important to continually bring up the fact that it can be different. More public transit and bike paths. If I we could take bikes around the city without worrying about being killed or having them stolen it would be a dream.
  - pokerface_86 3y ago
    in no world does having a higher center of gravity, and much higher mass make a car easier to drive. i find them painful to drive because i feel so unstable and slow.
    - seabird 3y ago
      Your average American driver has no understanding of this and never will. There's a reason the goofball in the Tahoe XL that takes every corner at 5mph is fine with going 90mph on the highway; they truly have zero idea on how to assess the handling of a vehicle.
- 7e 3y ago
  If you’re short, you prefer a vehicle which elevates your view.
  - crote 3y ago
    If you're short, you can't see a damn thing over the hood of those vehicles. An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice.
    - astura 3y ago
      >An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice. This sounds like hyperbole but is actually not hyperbole - https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 I'm a short woman and drive a sedan.
- dingnuts 3y ago
  it's because they are mothers with >2 children. You cannot fit three car seats in the backseat of modern sedans, and station wagons don't meet the emissions requirements. Large SUVs meet CAFE regulations by being large enough to be regulated as a different class of vehicle. Want smaller trucks? Complain to your Congresscritter to reign in the EPA and force them to write better regulation that does not have these unintended effects.
  - trgn 3y ago
    All true, also sad. That aside, how's the EPA responsible, not sure if I understand the connection?
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Trucks (and SUVs) don't follow the same emissions regulations as sedans/wagons. I don't know if that's just EPA policy or part of the legislation that allows them to regulate auto emissions. But, it's also Congress's fault for leaving the chicken tax in place (25% tariff on imported trucks/vans). This essentially allowed domestic brands to price gouge on trucks/suvs (as VW at the time, and then the Japanese brands as well) couldn't compete.
      - aidenn0 3y ago
        Toyota has plants in the US; I assume they make the Tacoma in the US, which should avoid the chicken tax?
        alistairSH 3y ago
        Correct. The Tacoma and Tundra are assembled in the US so should avoid the tax. The Land Cruiser is still produced in Japan, so subject to the tax. Same for the Lexus GX (no Toyota equiv in US) and LX (rebadged Land Cruiser). The old mini-truck and T100 were made in Japan (except maybe a year or two at the end of T100 production). The tax was implemented in the 60s or 70s, as VW was trying to get into the van and truck market in the US.
- trgn 3y ago
  All true. _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. The web of interwoven incentive structures - reptile brains, cafe standards, cheap gas, safety arms race, ... - pushing _everybody_ towards larger vehicles is the problem. System and id are completely misaligned, killing thousands in the process.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    > _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. Roughly 18% of the light vehicles sold in the US in 2023 were pickup trucks. The top 3 selling models in the US were pickup trucks. Yes there were about 3x as many SUVs sold[1] as pickups, but pickups aren't nothing. 1: I partitioned the "light truck" class into just pickups and SUVs; 78% of cars sold in 2023 were classified as "light trucks" per [2]; I got the 18% figure for pickups by totaling the sales of the 8 most popular pickup models by hand and dividing by 14.9M 2: https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/ https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/
- filoleg 3y ago
  God, this is pretty much my mother. She couldn’t care any less about “ruggedness” or that “tough guy” image. Her only argument ever is “safety.” I am not in it to change her mind. But whenever she brings this topic up and I show her the actual safety ratings for different vehicles, it’s almost as if her brain shuts down. She would say something along the lines “uh oh idk, maybe, who knows, it doesn’t feel as safe,” and the whole thing gets forgotten. Right until she decides to bring it up again from scratch at some point later, as if our previous conversations about it never happened. Lowkey, I think it would be an interesting idea to mandate displaying brightly colored safety ratings for every car on display at a dealership. No need to overcomplicate it by showing the entire stat sheet with a bajillion different numbers. Just one giant number for the overall rating, and about 4-5 subcategory numbers (e.g., driver safety score, passenger safety score, etc.). I think 1-2 of those metrics should be “the safety sub-category on which our car scored the worst.” My only worry about this is that the metrics themselves become the target goal, leading to either car manufacturers influencing safety rating boards or them maliciously complying by gaming the metrics just for those measured categories at the expense of everything else. Though the latter isn’t as much of a concern, given that it is pretty difficult to accomplish, and it would still have a large negative effect on the overall score.
  - matsemann 3y ago
    Every year, loads of kids die because a family member runs over them by accident in the driveway, a parking lot etc. With these huge cars, you don't properly see around them, and 360 cameras and sensors will not make up for all of that. So yeah, "safety".
    - filoleg 3y ago
      A lot of those car manufacturers just don’t care, and it isn’t exclusive to large cars either (though the damage they can do is obviously much higher, making them more dangerous to pedestrians). I like sports cars, so I tried test driving a Camaro about 5 years ago. You would think that visibility on a rather small and fast 2-seater would be at least better than on an average SUV. It was singularly the worst car I’ve ever driven in terms of visibility, compared to even most SUVs. Not even joking, it feels like driving a military tank, but just faster and smaller, with the field of view being extremely reminiscent of seeing the road through a thin horizontal slit. It’s not like it got worse over time either, because I remember the 2013 version was at least just as awful. Way to ruin a fine car with that tank-slit visibility. This specific case didn’t even have anything inherently to do with the type or size of the car (unlike with some giant trucks), so it made me extremely mad. It was quite literally for nothing.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  > Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman With tiny dogs. Maybe they're the preferred vehicle of tiny dogs.
  - steve_gh 3y ago
    In the UK we call these "Chelsea tractors". 9lIe a large vehicle more suited to offload conditions being driven short distances round highly affluent areas by people who wouldn't know the countryside if it bit them on the arsenal.
olyjohn 3y ago
Please don't ignore that every other person also has moved from driving cars to crossovers that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high, and that's what sells crossovers. The hoods are higher in them too and we can't discount this and blame it all on big trucks.
- closewith 3y ago
  Ease of entry alone, especially for the elderly or with young children, is an incredible advantage. What it sounds like is that crossovers don't offer advantages that appeal to you.
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    My grandma has a minivan. It's way better than a crossover for ease of getting into. The floor height is nice and low so she doesn't have to step way up into it. The roof height is high so she doesn't have to scrunch in. It's easier to strap in car seats, it's easier to load your kids into. It's not a marketing joke like crossovers are. What it sounds like, is that you didn't actually shop very hard for the right vehicle that actually has those advantages.
    - closewith 3y ago
      Minivans, at least in my market, are more or less double the price of crossovers, so they're not like-for-like. You're very dismissive in your comments here. I wonder if some self reflection is in order here.
      - CRConrad 3y ago
        > I wonder if some self reflection is in order here. I guess he will. Mean while, how about the same from you?
        closewith 3y ago
        Yikes, having read your comments, I think there's some irony here.
njarboe 3y ago
Trucks have a 25% import tax in the US and cars don't since the 1960. US domestic vehicle manufacturers have spent many decades to convince people to buy trucks and SUVs because of this fact. Google "chicken tax". Large station wagons used to be quite popular in the 1960's
- kspacewalk2 3y ago
  It's not just because of this fact. It's also because trucks and SUVs are exempted from fuel efficiency standards that apply to sedans. So out sedans go, Ford doesn't even bother with them at all anymore. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/07/trucks-outnumber-cars/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/07/trucks-ou...
  - njarboe 3y ago
    That is another reason. But the smallest trucks were put in the car efficiency standards. There used to be a Ford F100. Full size truck but lighter load capacity. RIP. Tax gas if you want people to burn less of it.
    - jewayne 3y ago
      > But the smallest trucks were put in the car efficiency standards. I don't think that's exactly true. It's just that fuel standards for light trucks are now defined in terms of the footprint of the vehicle -- the smaller the truck, the higher the fuel standard. Which is, of course, exactly what the automakers wanted: They make more money selling bigger trucks. I found the light truck CAFE standards online. Notice how simple they were from 2001-2010, and how ridiculous they are since the 2008 change: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-533/section-533.5#p-533.5(a) https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/p... > Tax gas if you want people to burn less of it. Change CAFE first, then tax. There's only so much people can do to day-to-day to change their fuel consumption. It really comes down to 1) Where they live 2) Where they work and 3) What they drive. If we're going to raise taxes, we have to start by turning the ship around as far as the available vehicles. Right now the streets are filled with brodozers.
sickofparadox 3y ago
It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 as compared to the monsters of today but manufacturers can't or won't sell me one. Making up some macho strawman to attack actually obfuscates the problem and makes discussing solutions more difficult. [1] https://www.motortrend.com/features/car-types-models-body-styles/#:~:text=SUV,vehicles%20have%20a%20complex%20history https://www.motortrend.com/features/car-types-models-body-st.... [2]https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-ar...
- closewith 3y ago
  Does anyone call an SUV a truck? Surely pickups are trucks.
  - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
    Some SUVs qualify as trucks under the definitions written into the law.
  - skyyler 3y ago
    According to chrysler, the PT Cruiser was a "light truck". I do think it's common for people to call large SUVs like the Ford Excursion "trucks".
    - porkbeer 3y ago
      They were only classed as trucks because they could not pass emmissions otherwise. A great example of the truck laws perverse incentives to automakers.
  - el_benhameen 3y ago
    My wife is from the Midwest, and on visits there I’ve regularly heard people refer to suburbans/explorers/etc. as “trucks”. Essentially the same platform, but with an enclosed rear with seats.
hipadev23 3y ago
Government regulation is what forced manufacturers to make bigger vehicles.
- jewayne 3y ago
  But who asked for the government regulations? Perhaps the manufacturers themselves? Edit: Yeah, it was the manufacturers.
  - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
    [dead]
infecto 3y ago
While I do believe people often buy trucks for the looks and emotional feeling, I equally feel that your projection itself is just as dangerous as the idea behind it.
- stcredzero 3y ago
  Yeah, contemptuously painting a diverse group of people with a broad brush as pernicious -- History has something to say about this mental move.
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    I have a hard time believing that truck drivers are a diverse group of people when they're really only popular in a single region of the world.
    - rhuru 3y ago
      In the top 10 most sold vehicles in USA 8-9 are trucks if I remember correctly. Ford F150 and Chevy Silvardo are typically number 1 and 2 consistently for decades. At that scale everything is likely to be diverse. For the soyboys drinking their vegan milk and driving their lime bike to pride parade, it might come as a surprise, but it in indeed is. (<= This is an attempt to show that how any group can be dangerously maligned)
      - crote 3y ago
        Exactly, "in USA". That's where the "only popular in a single region of the world" part comes in. Trucks, especially the variety seen in the US, are practically unheard of anywhere else in the world. When a specific style of vehicle is that popular in a single country it probably has more to do with legislation than driver preference. There is almost certainly a decent portion of people driving trucks who would prefer an alternative form factor - if only it were available. It'd make sense to distinguish "truck drivers" from "people driving trucks".
    - stcredzero 3y ago
FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
You think it's all dudes driving these things though? Surely yeah, that's the case for big stupid pickup trucks. But SUVs are driven by anxious Starbucks moms. "I need to feel safe." Hausfrauenpanzeren.
havefunbesafe 3y ago
The only way to reverse the trend is to create a motocross hitch that doesn't pulverize the suspension of a car/crossover.
HeatrayEnjoyer 3y ago
Better their trucks than my family members.
rhuru 3y ago
Common sense is the first casualty when any topic has political bias to it. This comment demonstrates that. Large vehicles are important part of American economy and mostly driven by blue collar workers doing their work. For example things like plumbing, construction site work etc. Now a days environment scientists and engineers too drive these large vehicles as they are very important for their day to day work. Not everyone can drive Tesla Model 3 everywhere. In fact majority of those large vehicles are you see are mostly driven by such needs ( pun intended). But the research on this topic itself is pretty shoddy. For example one has to look at other variables. Who was driving when the accident happened ? Chances are someone who was rushing to his work. A lot of other data points out that the drivers are at fault are often poor people going to their work in their work vehicle. Another data is he victims too are poor people going to their work and disregarding basic pedestrian safety. These are not men pretending to be rugged.
- the_gastropod 3y ago
  > Large vehicles are important part of American economy and mostly driven by blue collar workers doing their work Aaaaaaaabsolutely not! Trucks outnumber cars in every U.S. state. "Blue Collar" workers represent something like 16% of the U.S. workforce. The vast majority of truck drivers are not blue collar workers. Other countries have blue collar workers too. And trucks! Have you seen what they look like? Check this bad-boy out. This is peak performance when it comes to manly-man workin' trucks. [1] [1] https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2FA3BTR/a-small-blue-pickup-utility-truck-fully-loaded-with-orange-pink-yellow-green-and-blue-plastic-containers-in-taipei-taiwan-2FA3BTR.jpg https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2FA3BTR/a-small-blue-pickup-utilit...
  - twoWhlsGud 3y ago
    Not to forget the ubiquitous small delivery vans all over Europe that seem to work fine for craft folk. Not everything that's been turned into a culture war by those who are up for profiting needs be.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

KennyBlanken 3y ago

Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I noticed that the smallest moms at school at the biggest SUVs. They love the "might" that a huge vehicle gives them.

beretguy 3y ago
So… Rugged Women™, then.
practicemaths 3y ago
TBF Trucks and SUVs are relatively easier to drive in certain regards. Such as being able to see over parked traffic when making a turn. And I've found driving taller vehicles more comfortable for my back coincidentally.
- arwhatever 3y ago
  Until the parked vehicles also become taller
- mecsred 3y ago
  When you become the parked traffic, how does anyone see over you? Guess they need an even taller vehicle.
  - practicemaths 3y ago
    Yup. There's certainly a feedback loop. Just stating things that make these larger vehicles more easier to drive, especially for women whom on average are generally shorter so, even with pumping the seat up it's still considerably harder to see around traffic.
    - mecsred 3y ago
      I definitely get it. My girlfriend drives an SUV and I'd be lying if I said I never felt glad about that the way drivers and roads are out here. She's also been in an accident (with minimal injuries miraculously) where an SUV wrecked her E-bike in a pedestrian crossing because it "couldn't see" her. I find it important to continually bring up the fact that it can be different. More public transit and bike paths. If I we could take bikes around the city without worrying about being killed or having them stolen it would be a dream.
- pokerface_86 3y ago
  in no world does having a higher center of gravity, and much higher mass make a car easier to drive. i find them painful to drive because i feel so unstable and slow.
  - seabird 3y ago
    Your average American driver has no understanding of this and never will. There's a reason the goofball in the Tahoe XL that takes every corner at 5mph is fine with going 90mph on the highway; they truly have zero idea on how to assess the handling of a vehicle.
7e 3y ago
If you’re short, you prefer a vehicle which elevates your view.
- crote 3y ago
  If you're short, you can't see a damn thing over the hood of those vehicles. An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice.
  - astura 3y ago
    >An entire class of schoolchildren could be standing right in front of your vehicle and you wouldn't even notice. This sounds like hyperbole but is actually not hyperbole - https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 https://youtu.be/NDH3FDfVQl0?t=180 I'm a short woman and drive a sedan.
dingnuts 3y ago
it's because they are mothers with >2 children. You cannot fit three car seats in the backseat of modern sedans, and station wagons don't meet the emissions requirements. Large SUVs meet CAFE regulations by being large enough to be regulated as a different class of vehicle. Want smaller trucks? Complain to your Congresscritter to reign in the EPA and force them to write better regulation that does not have these unintended effects.
- trgn 3y ago
  All true, also sad. That aside, how's the EPA responsible, not sure if I understand the connection?
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Trucks (and SUVs) don't follow the same emissions regulations as sedans/wagons. I don't know if that's just EPA policy or part of the legislation that allows them to regulate auto emissions. But, it's also Congress's fault for leaving the chicken tax in place (25% tariff on imported trucks/vans). This essentially allowed domestic brands to price gouge on trucks/suvs (as VW at the time, and then the Japanese brands as well) couldn't compete.
    - aidenn0 3y ago
      Toyota has plants in the US; I assume they make the Tacoma in the US, which should avoid the chicken tax?
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        Correct. The Tacoma and Tundra are assembled in the US so should avoid the tax. The Land Cruiser is still produced in Japan, so subject to the tax. Same for the Lexus GX (no Toyota equiv in US) and LX (rebadged Land Cruiser). The old mini-truck and T100 were made in Japan (except maybe a year or two at the end of T100 production). The tax was implemented in the 60s or 70s, as VW was trying to get into the van and truck market in the US.
trgn 3y ago
All true. _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. The web of interwoven incentive structures - reptile brains, cafe standards, cheap gas, safety arms race, ... - pushing _everybody_ towards larger vehicles is the problem. System and id are completely misaligned, killing thousands in the process.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  > _everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas. Roughly 18% of the light vehicles sold in the US in 2023 were pickup trucks. The top 3 selling models in the US were pickup trucks. Yes there were about 3x as many SUVs sold[1] as pickups, but pickups aren't nothing. 1: I partitioned the "light truck" class into just pickups and SUVs; 78% of cars sold in 2023 were classified as "light trucks" per [2]; I got the 18% figure for pickups by totaling the sales of the 8 most popular pickup models by hand and dividing by 14.9M 2: https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/ https://carsurance.net/insights/car-sales-statistics/
filoleg 3y ago
God, this is pretty much my mother. She couldn’t care any less about “ruggedness” or that “tough guy” image. Her only argument ever is “safety.” I am not in it to change her mind. But whenever she brings this topic up and I show her the actual safety ratings for different vehicles, it’s almost as if her brain shuts down. She would say something along the lines “uh oh idk, maybe, who knows, it doesn’t feel as safe,” and the whole thing gets forgotten. Right until she decides to bring it up again from scratch at some point later, as if our previous conversations about it never happened. Lowkey, I think it would be an interesting idea to mandate displaying brightly colored safety ratings for every car on display at a dealership. No need to overcomplicate it by showing the entire stat sheet with a bajillion different numbers. Just one giant number for the overall rating, and about 4-5 subcategory numbers (e.g., driver safety score, passenger safety score, etc.). I think 1-2 of those metrics should be “the safety sub-category on which our car scored the worst.” My only worry about this is that the metrics themselves become the target goal, leading to either car manufacturers influencing safety rating boards or them maliciously complying by gaming the metrics just for those measured categories at the expense of everything else. Though the latter isn’t as much of a concern, given that it is pretty difficult to accomplish, and it would still have a large negative effect on the overall score.
- matsemann 3y ago
  Every year, loads of kids die because a family member runs over them by accident in the driveway, a parking lot etc. With these huge cars, you don't properly see around them, and 360 cameras and sensors will not make up for all of that. So yeah, "safety".
  - filoleg 3y ago
    A lot of those car manufacturers just don’t care, and it isn’t exclusive to large cars either (though the damage they can do is obviously much higher, making them more dangerous to pedestrians). I like sports cars, so I tried test driving a Camaro about 5 years ago. You would think that visibility on a rather small and fast 2-seater would be at least better than on an average SUV. It was singularly the worst car I’ve ever driven in terms of visibility, compared to even most SUVs. Not even joking, it feels like driving a military tank, but just faster and smaller, with the field of view being extremely reminiscent of seeing the road through a thin horizontal slit. It’s not like it got worse over time either, because I remember the 2013 version was at least just as awful. Way to ruin a fine car with that tank-slit visibility. This specific case didn’t even have anything inherently to do with the type or size of the car (unlike with some giant trucks), so it made me extremely mad. It was quite literally for nothing.
drewcoo 3y ago
> Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman With tiny dogs. Maybe they're the preferred vehicle of tiny dogs.
- steve_gh 3y ago
  In the UK we call these "Chelsea tractors". 9lIe a large vehicle more suited to offload conditions being driven short distances round highly affluent areas by people who wouldn't know the countryside if it bit them on the arsenal.

olyjohn 3y ago

Please don't ignore that every other person also has moved from driving cars to crossovers that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high, and that's what sells crossovers. The hoods are higher in them too and we can't discount this and blame it all on big trucks.

closewith 3y ago
Ease of entry alone, especially for the elderly or with young children, is an incredible advantage. What it sounds like is that crossovers don't offer advantages that appeal to you.
- olyjohn 3y ago
  My grandma has a minivan. It's way better than a crossover for ease of getting into. The floor height is nice and low so she doesn't have to step way up into it. The roof height is high so she doesn't have to scrunch in. It's easier to strap in car seats, it's easier to load your kids into. It's not a marketing joke like crossovers are. What it sounds like, is that you didn't actually shop very hard for the right vehicle that actually has those advantages.
  - closewith 3y ago
    Minivans, at least in my market, are more or less double the price of crossovers, so they're not like-for-like. You're very dismissive in your comments here. I wonder if some self reflection is in order here.
    - CRConrad 3y ago
      > I wonder if some self reflection is in order here. I guess he will. Mean while, how about the same from you?
      - closewith 3y ago
        Yikes, having read your comments, I think there's some irony here.

njarboe 3y ago

Trucks have a 25% import tax in the US and cars don't since the 1960. US domestic vehicle manufacturers have spent many decades to convince people to buy trucks and SUVs because of this fact. Google "chicken tax". Large station wagons used to be quite popular in the 1960's

kspacewalk2 3y ago
It's not just because of this fact. It's also because trucks and SUVs are exempted from fuel efficiency standards that apply to sedans. So out sedans go, Ford doesn't even bother with them at all anymore. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/07/trucks-outnumber-cars/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/07/trucks-ou...
- njarboe 3y ago
  That is another reason. But the smallest trucks were put in the car efficiency standards. There used to be a Ford F100. Full size truck but lighter load capacity. RIP. Tax gas if you want people to burn less of it.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    > But the smallest trucks were put in the car efficiency standards. I don't think that's exactly true. It's just that fuel standards for light trucks are now defined in terms of the footprint of the vehicle -- the smaller the truck, the higher the fuel standard. Which is, of course, exactly what the automakers wanted: They make more money selling bigger trucks. I found the light truck CAFE standards online. Notice how simple they were from 2001-2010, and how ridiculous they are since the 2008 change: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-533/section-533.5#p-533.5(a) https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/p... > Tax gas if you want people to burn less of it. Change CAFE first, then tax. There's only so much people can do to day-to-day to change their fuel consumption. It really comes down to 1) Where they live 2) Where they work and 3) What they drive. If we're going to raise taxes, we have to start by turning the ship around as far as the available vehicles. Right now the streets are filled with brodozers.

sickofparadox 3y ago

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 as compared to the monsters of today but manufacturers can't or won't sell me one. Making up some macho strawman to attack actually obfuscates the problem and makes discussing solutions more difficult. [1] https://www.motortrend.com/features/car-types-models-body-styles/#:~:text=SUV,vehicles%20have%20a%20complex%20history https://www.motortrend.com/features/car-types-models-body-st.... [2]https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-are-fuel-economy-regulations-to-blame https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-ar...

closewith 3y ago
Does anyone call an SUV a truck? Surely pickups are trucks.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
  Some SUVs qualify as trucks under the definitions written into the law.
- skyyler 3y ago
  According to chrysler, the PT Cruiser was a "light truck". I do think it's common for people to call large SUVs like the Ford Excursion "trucks".
  - porkbeer 3y ago
    They were only classed as trucks because they could not pass emmissions otherwise. A great example of the truck laws perverse incentives to automakers.
- el_benhameen 3y ago
  My wife is from the Midwest, and on visits there I’ve regularly heard people refer to suburbans/explorers/etc. as “trucks”. Essentially the same platform, but with an enclosed rear with seats.

hipadev23 3y ago

Government regulation is what forced manufacturers to make bigger vehicles.

jewayne 3y ago
But who asked for the government regulations? Perhaps the manufacturers themselves? Edit: Yeah, it was the manufacturers.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
  [dead]

infecto 3y ago

While I do believe people often buy trucks for the looks and emotional feeling, I equally feel that your projection itself is just as dangerous as the idea behind it.

stcredzero 3y ago
Yeah, contemptuously painting a diverse group of people with a broad brush as pernicious -- History has something to say about this mental move.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  I have a hard time believing that truck drivers are a diverse group of people when they're really only popular in a single region of the world.
  - rhuru 3y ago
    In the top 10 most sold vehicles in USA 8-9 are trucks if I remember correctly. Ford F150 and Chevy Silvardo are typically number 1 and 2 consistently for decades. At that scale everything is likely to be diverse. For the soyboys drinking their vegan milk and driving their lime bike to pride parade, it might come as a surprise, but it in indeed is. (<= This is an attempt to show that how any group can be dangerously maligned)
    - crote 3y ago
      Exactly, "in USA". That's where the "only popular in a single region of the world" part comes in. Trucks, especially the variety seen in the US, are practically unheard of anywhere else in the world. When a specific style of vehicle is that popular in a single country it probably has more to do with legislation than driver preference. There is almost certainly a decent portion of people driving trucks who would prefer an alternative form factor - if only it were available. It'd make sense to distinguish "truck drivers" from "people driving trucks".
  - stcredzero 3y ago

FooBarBizBazz 3y ago

You think it's all dudes driving these things though? Surely yeah, that's the case for big stupid pickup trucks. But SUVs are driven by anxious Starbucks moms. "I need to feel safe." Hausfrauenpanzeren.

havefunbesafe 3y ago

The only way to reverse the trend is to create a motocross hitch that doesn't pulverize the suspension of a car/crossover.

HeatrayEnjoyer 3y ago

Better their trucks than my family members.

rhuru 3y ago

Common sense is the first casualty when any topic has political bias to it. This comment demonstrates that. Large vehicles are important part of American economy and mostly driven by blue collar workers doing their work. For example things like plumbing, construction site work etc. Now a days environment scientists and engineers too drive these large vehicles as they are very important for their day to day work. Not everyone can drive Tesla Model 3 everywhere. In fact majority of those large vehicles are you see are mostly driven by such needs ( pun intended). But the research on this topic itself is pretty shoddy. For example one has to look at other variables. Who was driving when the accident happened ? Chances are someone who was rushing to his work. A lot of other data points out that the drivers are at fault are often poor people going to their work in their work vehicle. Another data is he victims too are poor people going to their work and disregarding basic pedestrian safety. These are not men pretending to be rugged.

the_gastropod 3y ago
> Large vehicles are important part of American economy and mostly driven by blue collar workers doing their work Aaaaaaaabsolutely not! Trucks outnumber cars in every U.S. state. "Blue Collar" workers represent something like 16% of the U.S. workforce. The vast majority of truck drivers are not blue collar workers. Other countries have blue collar workers too. And trucks! Have you seen what they look like? Check this bad-boy out. This is peak performance when it comes to manly-man workin' trucks. [1] [1] https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2FA3BTR/a-small-blue-pickup-utility-truck-fully-loaded-with-orange-pink-yellow-green-and-blue-plastic-containers-in-taipei-taiwan-2FA3BTR.jpg https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2FA3BTR/a-small-blue-pickup-utilit...
- twoWhlsGud 3y ago
  Not to forget the ubiquitous small delivery vans all over Europe that seem to work fine for craft folk. Not everything that's been turned into a culture war by those who are up for profiting needs be.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]