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What are you talking about? The last CEO was an engineer. MCAS was designed by engineers. The clearly over complicated door plug system was designed by engin

What are you talking about? The last CEO was an engineer. MCAS was designed by engineers. The clearly over complicated door plug system was designed by engineers. It looks like the engineers are the problem and the MBAs get to clean it up.

delfinom 3y ago
MCAS was designed by engineers in response to a design problem. The MBAs elected to cover it up from the manual because that would hurt their sales goals of not needing pilot training. Yes, sales/marketing and management leeches have a lot of control over documentation that leaves the company. The best part is, it was the leeches that decided to make a fucking indicator light that told you the sensors for MCAS were unhappy, a PAID FUCKING ADDON. The last CEO was an engineer who got thrown under the bus for the 737 crashes while not being the CEO when it was designed. He was pissing too many leeches off internally so they threw him under the bus. I know two long time employees of Boeing that left after the last CEO was removed because roughly paraphrasing "Wow, this company is fucked, he was actually trying to fix the company"
- gmokki 3y ago
  Yes. And the design problems was created by MBAs that decided that they want: 1) to keep the new engines that change how the plane flies 2) a convincing lie that passes minimal scrutiny that the plane flies the same - to avoid training pilots to a perfectly good new plane 3) after engineering came with the MCAS solution MBAs drove the cost down and removed redundancy - after all the whole feature was a secret so no one would demand redundancy
g-b-r 3y ago
[1] might explain it, if it were so. But the fault would be of the MBAs... Anyhow it was a management decision to not tell about the MCAS changes (not to mention what led to requiring it), management kind of does affect the engineering choices, and is it really over complicated to require 4 rivets? https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213075 https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213075
- tiahura 3y ago
  The central thesis from your link: American engineers and technical designers are being laid off by the hundreds while Russian engineers are quietly hired at the Boeing Design Center in Moscow. There's a reason people don't let the inmates run the asylum.
  - g-b-r 3y ago
    If they consider engineers inmates of an asylum, the reason is they're (bad, or with second aims) managers
toast0 3y ago
> The clearly over complicated door plug system was designed by engineers. It may be a little early for armchair engineering; we should probably wait for a failure analysis report. But the door plug doesn't seem overly complicated. Put the plug in, bolt it on, tada. Where's the complication? The bolts are supposed to have safety wire to keep them from loosening by vibration.

delfinom 3y ago

MCAS was designed by engineers in response to a design problem. The MBAs elected to cover it up from the manual because that would hurt their sales goals of not needing pilot training. Yes, sales/marketing and management leeches have a lot of control over documentation that leaves the company. The best part is, it was the leeches that decided to make a fucking indicator light that told you the sensors for MCAS were unhappy, a PAID FUCKING ADDON. The last CEO was an engineer who got thrown under the bus for the 737 crashes while not being the CEO when it was designed. He was pissing too many leeches off internally so they threw him under the bus. I know two long time employees of Boeing that left after the last CEO was removed because roughly paraphrasing "Wow, this company is fucked, he was actually trying to fix the company"

gmokki 3y ago
Yes. And the design problems was created by MBAs that decided that they want: 1) to keep the new engines that change how the plane flies 2) a convincing lie that passes minimal scrutiny that the plane flies the same - to avoid training pilots to a perfectly good new plane 3) after engineering came with the MCAS solution MBAs drove the cost down and removed redundancy - after all the whole feature was a secret so no one would demand redundancy

g-b-r 3y ago

[1] might explain it, if it were so. But the fault would be of the MBAs... Anyhow it was a management decision to not tell about the MCAS changes (not to mention what led to requiring it), management kind of does affect the engineering choices, and is it really over complicated to require 4 rivets? https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213075 https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213075

tiahura 3y ago
The central thesis from your link: American engineers and technical designers are being laid off by the hundreds while Russian engineers are quietly hired at the Boeing Design Center in Moscow. There's a reason people don't let the inmates run the asylum.
- g-b-r 3y ago
  If they consider engineers inmates of an asylum, the reason is they're (bad, or with second aims) managers

toast0 3y ago

> The clearly over complicated door plug system was designed by engineers. It may be a little early for armchair engineering; we should probably wait for a failure analysis report. But the door plug doesn't seem overly complicated. Put the plug in, bolt it on, tada. Where's the complication? The bolts are supposed to have safety wire to keep them from loosening by vibration.