7 ms·

The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small, and the disadvantage is that rogue waves can just randomly splash that high. The current pl

by tlb 3y ago

The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small, and the disadvantage is that rogue waves can just randomly splash that high. The current plane's wingspan is 65 feet, which probably means it flies about 32 feet (half a wingspan) off the water. Rogue waves can easily be that high in mild weather, and hitting even a small amount of water at 200 mph (claimed cruise speed) is bad. Lots of sea birds too, presumably, at that altitude.

defrost 3y ago
Seriously good fun as a garage home build though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ILbQHnHPnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ILbQHnHPnY
pelagic_sky 3y ago
Watching that demo video was terrifying to me. The water is unpredictable and this thing wants to be close to it at full speed. It would have to be perfect conditions to get me into one of those.
danans 3y ago
> The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small It's small compared to regular flight, but it's far more efficient than a regular boat hull pushing the water. A lot of that efficiency is achieved in hydrofoil mode, but lifting into ground effect mode should be even more efficient than hydrofoil (albeit as you say at some loss of stability). There are already several electric hydrofoil pleasure boats available that have remarkable range, i.e. Navier and Candela.
trhway 3y ago
>The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is the certification of the craft as a ship instead of a plane. I think it'd be very easy to build today a flying boat like the ones from 30s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper), yet certification cost of it makes it unfeasible as a business endeavor. In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted there as it is expected to bring homeless/etc. to the otherwise affluent islands.
- tw04 3y ago
  > In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted there as it is expected to bring homeless/etc. to the otherwise affluent islands. There’s already dirt cheap inter-island transport, it’s just slow. A homeless guy doesn’t care if the ferry takes 2 hours instead of 30 minutes when the ticket is $40. https://www.oahutomaui.com/default.html https://www.oahutomaui.com/default.html
  - trhway 3y ago
    It ceased operations a decade ago. For environmental reasons officially, and unofficially exactly because it was cheap inter-island transport for homeless and the likes. >There’s already dirt cheap inter-island transport that is the point that there is no such transport.
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Is this actually a problem? This feels like something that an automated system could pretty easily detect, up to the range of visibility, and raise the seaplane up if this happens. Further, this is an inter-island route. Adding dedicated monitoring seems imminently doable. Yes, this is a concern. No, it's not hard to deal with.
- mock-possum 3y ago
  Isn’t the deal with rogue waves that they’re rogue? They’re not just big waves that slowly and predictably approach you from the horizon, then continue on their way past you in the opposite direction - they arise suddenly, unpredictably, without warning. One minute everything is smooth sailing, peaks and troughs of a few feet, and then suddenly the sea drops out from under you and now you’re in a 30 foot trough, or the sea just bunches up and you’re facing a 30 foot wave - maybe it grows out of nowhere, with you on top of it.
  - jaystraw 3y ago
    iirc, a rogue wave is 2x the local max. 2x or greater, yes, but 10x...i'm unaware of recorded examples.
    - mock-possum 3y ago
      2x minimum - but yeah fair enough 10x is an over exaggeration.
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
    It seems like if it is a nodal-point/interference issue, the probability has to be so small because it's a small area & momentary. You're probably right. But it also makes me think this might be a fantastically unlikely problem. I wonder where we'd get data on the likeliness of rogue waves of what size around Hawaii. It also stirs wondermemt about wavelength/periodicity of wave systems.
    - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by tlb 3y ago

defrost 3y ago

Seriously good fun as a garage home build though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ILbQHnHPnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ILbQHnHPnY

pelagic_sky 3y ago

Watching that demo video was terrifying to me. The water is unpredictable and this thing wants to be close to it at full speed. It would have to be perfect conditions to get me into one of those.

danans 3y ago

> The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small It's small compared to regular flight, but it's far more efficient than a regular boat hull pushing the water. A lot of that efficiency is achieved in hydrofoil mode, but lifting into ground effect mode should be even more efficient than hydrofoil (albeit as you say at some loss of stability). There are already several electric hydrofoil pleasure boats available that have remarkable range, i.e. Navier and Candela.

trhway 3y ago

>The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is the certification of the craft as a ship instead of a plane. I think it'd be very easy to build today a flying boat like the ones from 30s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper), yet certification cost of it makes it unfeasible as a business endeavor. In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted there as it is expected to bring homeless/etc. to the otherwise affluent islands.

tw04 3y ago
> In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted there as it is expected to bring homeless/etc. to the otherwise affluent islands. There’s already dirt cheap inter-island transport, it’s just slow. A homeless guy doesn’t care if the ferry takes 2 hours instead of 30 minutes when the ticket is $40. https://www.oahutomaui.com/default.html https://www.oahutomaui.com/default.html
- trhway 3y ago
  It ceased operations a decade ago. For environmental reasons officially, and unofficially exactly because it was cheap inter-island transport for homeless and the likes. >There’s already dirt cheap inter-island transport that is the point that there is no such transport.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

Is this actually a problem? This feels like something that an automated system could pretty easily detect, up to the range of visibility, and raise the seaplane up if this happens. Further, this is an inter-island route. Adding dedicated monitoring seems imminently doable. Yes, this is a concern. No, it's not hard to deal with.

mock-possum 3y ago
Isn’t the deal with rogue waves that they’re rogue? They’re not just big waves that slowly and predictably approach you from the horizon, then continue on their way past you in the opposite direction - they arise suddenly, unpredictably, without warning. One minute everything is smooth sailing, peaks and troughs of a few feet, and then suddenly the sea drops out from under you and now you’re in a 30 foot trough, or the sea just bunches up and you’re facing a 30 foot wave - maybe it grows out of nowhere, with you on top of it.
- jaystraw 3y ago
  iirc, a rogue wave is 2x the local max. 2x or greater, yes, but 10x...i'm unaware of recorded examples.
  - mock-possum 3y ago
    2x minimum - but yeah fair enough 10x is an over exaggeration.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  It seems like if it is a nodal-point/interference issue, the probability has to be so small because it's a small area & momentary. You're probably right. But it also makes me think this might be a fantastically unlikely problem. I wonder where we'd get data on the likeliness of rogue waves of what size around Hawaii. It also stirs wondermemt about wavelength/periodicity of wave systems.
  - 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]