4 ms·

Cause and effect. We tell a country you can no longer use our toys. You've been sanctioned! They develop their own toys that threaten to infiltrate us and the

Cause and effect. We tell a country you can no longer use our toys. You've been sanctioned! They develop their own toys that threaten to infiltrate us and the rest of the world - much in the same way the original toys do. We forced them to learn to fish on their own. They are no longer bound to us. Maybe Michael Corleone was right when he said... "keep your friends close but your enemies closer."

tianqi 3y ago
They didn't develop their own toys, they just stole the toys that others open-sourced. Considering that this behavior is not market driven, although a special(if not monstrous) ecosystem could be formed, I don't think the quality of the apps in that system is sufficient for it to expand into any normal market.
- deadbolt 3y ago
  They stole open-source software?
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Do you see them complying with the terms of the GPL ?
    - charleslmunger 3y ago
      https://consumer.huawei.com/en/opensource/detail/?siteCode=worldwide&productCode=Smartphones&fileType=openSourceSoftware&pageSize=10&curPage=1 https://consumer.huawei.com/en/opensource/detail/?siteCode=w...
    - Barrin92 3y ago
      I love how the general tone is "information is free!" unless of course when the one benefitting from it is China, in which case everyone suddenly gets out their magnifying glasses and GPL licenses. For what it's worth in practical terms, I can't tell you if everyone in China complies with every license, but Huawei is one of the largest contributors to the linux kernel and several open source projects. https://news.itsfoss.com/huawei-kernel-contribution/ https://news.itsfoss.com/huawei-kernel-contribution/
      - xtracto 3y ago
        These conversations are always interesting in these type of US-centric forums: You can really see the "patriotism" that emanates from these conversations: China BAD, US Good and exactly what you mention: Free for me but not for thee. As someone from a third world country it is like watching two bullies fight each other in the school. Well, both of them spy on me, both of them abuse me (I'm Mexican) and both of them think they are always right. For me, both of them are pretty similar.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - threeseed 3y ago
        China has a long and well-documented history of IP theft. So the doubt is legitimate. And they have to contribute to Linux and other open source projects in order to have an Android-compatible operating system. At some point you need to either fix bugs or add features to support your own hardware. But this shouldn't be seen as altruism.
        deadbolt 3y ago
        > So the doubt is legitimate That's a nice way of excusing yourself for claiming they're not complying with the GPL, when incorrect.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Apparently that doesn't matter to US companies always eager to build in China as means to avoid paying US salaries.
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
        > China has a long and well-documented history of IP theft. As does the USA. As do other western nations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28330810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28330810
      - kadoban 3y ago
        > I love how the general tone is "information is free!" unless of course when the one benefitting from it is China, in which case everyone suddenly gets out their magnifying glasses and GPL licenses. I have _never_ gotten the "information is free!" vibe from HN. That was like 80s/90s hacker culture, not 2020s HN. There's a lot of devs and business people here, neither of which are fond of licenses being abused in general.
  - tianqi 3y ago
    Yes. You might have a better word for stealthily using open source software and claiming that it was developed independently by themselves.
    - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
      That’s called lying. But it’s not theft.
      - rpmisms 3y ago
        [flagged]
        roenxi 3y ago
        1) If someone is raping prostitutes, there are more serious crimes afoot than theft. 2) Sorry, but how have they broken the license? We seem to have missed a step in the conversation. 3) And on the thread topic, I don't even think they are clearly lying. They might just be mis-speaking.
        rpmisms 3y ago
        1) exactly 2) reselling most open-source code is theft under the licenses in common use. 3) maybe, but on this forum of rather clever people, I assume people mean what they say.
        roenxi 3y ago
        > reselling most open-source code is theft under the licenses in common use. That doesn't sound like any OSS license in common use; and one of the freedoms that FOSS licenses preserve is the freedom to sell software. Which license do you think they're in violation of? > maybe, but on this forum of rather clever people, I assume people mean what they say. That is a bad assumption. People often mis-speak and there is nothing that protects against that. When people make a claim that isn't true, it is prudent to seek clarification in the first instance to prevent misunderstandings. Particularly when dealing with cross-cultural institutions where the management presumably speak Chinese.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Stole their toys? The west, lured in by cheap manufacturing and labor, handed its precious IP over to them on a silver platter and got so greedy it deindustrialized itself. Must have thought they were the world's bosses or something. Meanwhile China got rich, industrialized and militarized. The west has only itself to blame. The US and its brethren better wake up and smell the coffee or they will share the fate of the british empire.
  - tianqi 3y ago
    Others' willingness to co-operate and share is not a valid reason for stealing.
  - echelon 3y ago
    America is doing just fine. The past five years were enough to teach the West to pull out of China and move manufacturing and investment dollars to India, Vietnam, and Mexico. Mexico is going to be the near-shoring super hub for America, and Texas is going to be an incredible beneficiary of that switch. Many analysts are saying this will push Texas GDP over that of California. China didn't have enough time to develop a strong domestic consumer base, and now it's seeing a pull back from international buyers as it simultaneously has to contend with massive economic issues at home. America, meanwhile, has a ten-plus year lead on semiconductors and the burgeoning AI field. It basically got to reap the upside of cheap Chinese manufacturing while it lasted and keep all the best for itself. Now it's actively re-configuring the world's supply chains. You can see America making big changes to worldwide shipping and energy, too. Even OPEC is powerless to control pricing now. And as an added bonus, America feels re-invigorated by competition and is pushing itself to work harder. I wouldn't shed a single tear for America. It got exactly what it wanted and is moving on from the relationship.
    - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
      > America is doing just fine. Compared to what? China is building thousands of kilometers of high speed rail seemingly every year. They’re expanding their power through trade agreements rather than military force. They can manufacture whatever they want. From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines. Our economy is so broken people can’t afford rent, school and medical debt are skyrocketing, our planes keep falling apart, we have the highest prison population ever, mass shootings keep happening, and more and more Americans are living in cars. I think it only looks fine to us because we’re too xenophobic to look outside our borders and see how different things could be.
ecf 3y ago
> We tell a country you can no longer use our toys. Great Firewall would like a word…

tianqi 3y ago

They didn't develop their own toys, they just stole the toys that others open-sourced. Considering that this behavior is not market driven, although a special(if not monstrous) ecosystem could be formed, I don't think the quality of the apps in that system is sufficient for it to expand into any normal market.

deadbolt 3y ago
They stole open-source software?
- threeseed 3y ago
  Do you see them complying with the terms of the GPL ?
  - charleslmunger 3y ago
    https://consumer.huawei.com/en/opensource/detail/?siteCode=worldwide&productCode=Smartphones&fileType=openSourceSoftware&pageSize=10&curPage=1 https://consumer.huawei.com/en/opensource/detail/?siteCode=w...
  - Barrin92 3y ago
    I love how the general tone is "information is free!" unless of course when the one benefitting from it is China, in which case everyone suddenly gets out their magnifying glasses and GPL licenses. For what it's worth in practical terms, I can't tell you if everyone in China complies with every license, but Huawei is one of the largest contributors to the linux kernel and several open source projects. https://news.itsfoss.com/huawei-kernel-contribution/ https://news.itsfoss.com/huawei-kernel-contribution/
    - xtracto 3y ago
      These conversations are always interesting in these type of US-centric forums: You can really see the "patriotism" that emanates from these conversations: China BAD, US Good and exactly what you mention: Free for me but not for thee. As someone from a third world country it is like watching two bullies fight each other in the school. Well, both of them spy on me, both of them abuse me (I'm Mexican) and both of them think they are always right. For me, both of them are pretty similar.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - threeseed 3y ago
      China has a long and well-documented history of IP theft. So the doubt is legitimate. And they have to contribute to Linux and other open source projects in order to have an Android-compatible operating system. At some point you need to either fix bugs or add features to support your own hardware. But this shouldn't be seen as altruism.
      - deadbolt 3y ago
        > So the doubt is legitimate That's a nice way of excusing yourself for claiming they're not complying with the GPL, when incorrect.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Apparently that doesn't matter to US companies always eager to build in China as means to avoid paying US salaries.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        > China has a long and well-documented history of IP theft. As does the USA. As do other western nations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28330810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28330810
    - kadoban 3y ago
      > I love how the general tone is "information is free!" unless of course when the one benefitting from it is China, in which case everyone suddenly gets out their magnifying glasses and GPL licenses. I have _never_ gotten the "information is free!" vibe from HN. That was like 80s/90s hacker culture, not 2020s HN. There's a lot of devs and business people here, neither of which are fond of licenses being abused in general.
- tianqi 3y ago
  Yes. You might have a better word for stealthily using open source software and claiming that it was developed independently by themselves.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    That’s called lying. But it’s not theft.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - roenxi 3y ago
        1) If someone is raping prostitutes, there are more serious crimes afoot than theft. 2) Sorry, but how have they broken the license? We seem to have missed a step in the conversation. 3) And on the thread topic, I don't even think they are clearly lying. They might just be mis-speaking.
        rpmisms 3y ago
        1) exactly 2) reselling most open-source code is theft under the licenses in common use. 3) maybe, but on this forum of rather clever people, I assume people mean what they say.
        roenxi 3y ago
        > reselling most open-source code is theft under the licenses in common use. That doesn't sound like any OSS license in common use; and one of the freedoms that FOSS licenses preserve is the freedom to sell software. Which license do you think they're in violation of? > maybe, but on this forum of rather clever people, I assume people mean what they say. That is a bad assumption. People often mis-speak and there is nothing that protects against that. When people make a claim that isn't true, it is prudent to seek clarification in the first instance to prevent misunderstandings. Particularly when dealing with cross-cultural institutions where the management presumably speak Chinese.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Stole their toys? The west, lured in by cheap manufacturing and labor, handed its precious IP over to them on a silver platter and got so greedy it deindustrialized itself. Must have thought they were the world's bosses or something. Meanwhile China got rich, industrialized and militarized. The west has only itself to blame. The US and its brethren better wake up and smell the coffee or they will share the fate of the british empire.
- tianqi 3y ago
  Others' willingness to co-operate and share is not a valid reason for stealing.
- echelon 3y ago
  America is doing just fine. The past five years were enough to teach the West to pull out of China and move manufacturing and investment dollars to India, Vietnam, and Mexico. Mexico is going to be the near-shoring super hub for America, and Texas is going to be an incredible beneficiary of that switch. Many analysts are saying this will push Texas GDP over that of California. China didn't have enough time to develop a strong domestic consumer base, and now it's seeing a pull back from international buyers as it simultaneously has to contend with massive economic issues at home. America, meanwhile, has a ten-plus year lead on semiconductors and the burgeoning AI field. It basically got to reap the upside of cheap Chinese manufacturing while it lasted and keep all the best for itself. Now it's actively re-configuring the world's supply chains. You can see America making big changes to worldwide shipping and energy, too. Even OPEC is powerless to control pricing now. And as an added bonus, America feels re-invigorated by competition and is pushing itself to work harder. I wouldn't shed a single tear for America. It got exactly what it wanted and is moving on from the relationship.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    > America is doing just fine. Compared to what? China is building thousands of kilometers of high speed rail seemingly every year. They’re expanding their power through trade agreements rather than military force. They can manufacture whatever they want. From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines. Our economy is so broken people can’t afford rent, school and medical debt are skyrocketing, our planes keep falling apart, we have the highest prison population ever, mass shootings keep happening, and more and more Americans are living in cars. I think it only looks fine to us because we’re too xenophobic to look outside our borders and see how different things could be.

ecf 3y ago

> We tell a country you can no longer use our toys. Great Firewall would like a word…