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The other thing correlates with Western affluence is our diet that’s much heavier in animal products. The Standard American Diet: SAD. The diet of the Blue Zon
by markstos 3y ago
The other thing correlates with Western affluence is our diet that’s much heavier in animal products. The Standard American Diet: SAD.
The diet of the Blue Zones where people live longest are mostly plant-based.
- extasia 3y agoDo you believe that meat consumption is the prime causal factor?
- markstos 3y agoThe link between animal protein was investigated in some detail in the China Study. Also in the documentary Forks Over Knives. Evidence found that there were “diseases of the west” that correlated with the western diet. Since then, the Cleveland Clinic has used plant-based diets to reverse heart disease successfully. Other programs use it reverse heart disease. The book How Not to Die covers many of the top killer diseases in the US and what food are best and worst to eat to avoid those fates based on reviews of scientific literature. The trend thoughtout is that plant-based diets fare best. Not surprising that this correlates with Blue Zone diets. The book Fiber Fueled looks the science of gut health and what foods are best for gut health. The answer: a variety of plant foods. As a study size of one, I’ve personally been able to recover quickly enough to do 6 26.2+ mile runs in six months in my forties. I think that would difficult and injury prone on a high-inflammation diet.
- garduque 3y agoAlso a distance runner (half and full marathons) in my 40s. I would absolutely say that dropping meat and dairy from my diet (a few months ago) has been beneficial to my running performance. Anecdotal, of course, but I know that you and I are not the only ones. Also, yes, all of those things you cited, and others. In particular the existence of The Esselstyn Heart Disease Program [1], founded by Dr Esselstyn of Forks Over Knives fame, at the world's top heart hospital, is noteworthy. [1] https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrat...
- durirbfocisbs 3y agoDo any of these books reference studies that provide causation for the observations? If not, it’s hard to judge how reliable these are. Maybe more than “I saw my boy frank go vegan and lose weight” but even then…I intimately know frank and can be reasonably sure the diet helped him lose weight. Can’t say the same for all these observational studies. This has always been a major concern for me with a lot of studies. People seem ok with it and I’ve never understood why. It’s like trying to understand a bug by looking at the broader logs / data instead of reading the code (which is absolutely a useful tool, though the more complicated the code - like with the human body - the less useful it is. And I certainly wouldn’t be advising any fixes based off of it). And far too often reading the code tells a wildly different story.
- markstos 3y agoSee for yourself. Plug your favorite disease that’s killed a relative into https://nutritionfacts.org/ https://nutritionfacts.org/ and find related scientific nutrition studies explained. It’s associated with the doctor who wrote How Not to Die. I believe, yes, sometimes the specific nutrients at play are understood. Take some toxins and heavy metals for example. Some accumulate in animals and travel up the food chain. So it’s no surprise there are more toxins and heavy metals that have accumulated in bigger fish. Since big beans don’t eat small beans, there’s not bio-accumulation there. Even the USDA in trying to promote fish advices choosing fish that are “lower in mercury”. Or you could not eat fish and skip a major source of mecury exposure.
- firecall 3y agoWasn’t there something linked on HN the other day that pointed out what nonsense the Blue Zones are? No validate scientific evidence, blue zones are areas with bad record keeping and no birth certificates etc…
- markstos 3y agoOne of the places with higher longevity has good record keeping and birth certificates: Loma Linda, California. What’s different about this city? A lot Seventh Day Adventists who adhere to vegetarianism live there… and live about 10 years longer than average.
- TexanFeller 3y agoThere are a lot of other things different about the 7DAs besides vegetarianism that could be more causal.
- MrDresden 3y agoKnowing nothing about their practices I'd wager a guess that having tightly knit communities plays a big part in their elderly well being.
- livueta 3y agoYes: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/09/28/places-claiming-to-be-centenarian-hotspots-may-just-have-bad-data https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/09/28/places-c... https://web.archive.org/web/20230928151239/https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/09/28/places-claiming-to-be-centenarian-hotspots-may-just-have-bad-data https://web.archive.org/web/20230928151239/https://www.econo...
- xhkkffbf 3y agoMostly plant-based? This is kind of wishful thinking. Okinawa, for instance, eats plenty of fish. The Greeks and the Italians eat plenty of fish, meat and cheese. The poorest countries have the greatest percentage of plant-based food and, no surprise, they also have the shortest lifespans. The reality is that the phrase "plant-based" is now a buzzword replacement for "vegetarian" and it has more political meaning than any real connection to health or nutrition. Hostess Twinkees, Hohos, Ring Dings, etc. are all very good examples of plant-based food.
- pmlamotte 3y agoThe Okinawa diet commonly touted for longevity was primarily sweet potato, and only 1% fish. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y agoUnfortunately, I now have to have doubts about any Japanese longevity associations after many centenarians were found to have been secretly dead. Families were collecting the death benefits and pretending the person was still alive. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/10/japenese-centenarians-records https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/10/japenese-cente...
- klipt 3y agoSo the secret to longevity really is generous social benefits ... and not checking too carefully if the beneficiary is still alive.
- hombre_fatal 3y ago> The poorest countries have the greatest percentage of plant-based food and, no surprise, they also have the shortest lifespans. Are you suggesting it's because of plants and not because they're poor? Instead of making ecological comparisons, you should ask the question of what the science shows within one population, like in prospective cohort studies. Does increased vegetable consumption correlate with better or worse health outcomes? > Hostess Twinkees, Hohos, Ring Dings, etc. are all very good examples of plant-based food. Sure, but that's not what people are talking about when they refer to plants in the context of health and nutrition.
- kderbyma 3y agoSeed oils, Fillers, Leaviners, texturisers, emulsifiers.....poison.
- NotGMan 3y agoBlue zones are a myth. Once you take in account their shitty birth certificiates (faked and/or missing) it collapses like a house of cards.
- 4gotunameagain 3y agoWhere can one find a source for this claim ? I only read that article about Okinawa. I find it hard to believe that so many people have an uncertainty of 5-10 years on their birth date (or lie about it) that it skews the statistics.