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We are also seeing an immense mismatch between worker productivity vs salaries. Per worker productivity has increased a lot since the 80s but most of the value

by piva00 3y ago

We are also seeing an immense mismatch between worker productivity vs salaries. Per worker productivity has increased a lot since the 80s but most of the value added hasn't been translated into wages but captured by the capital elite. While this happens it doesn't matter so much that societies adapt their skillsets, workers will keep experiencing wages depressed relative to their productivity. At some point this will completely break the social contract.

nightski 3y ago
Maybe some has been captured by the "capital elite" or whatever that is (I think personally that is more a function of globalism). But it's also just been captured by society itself. We now have access to far more goods and services than ever before, and for incredibly cheap.
- piva00 3y ago
  > Maybe some has been captured by the "capital elite" or whatever that is (I think personally that is more a function of globalism). Whatever that is: it's the people who have capital to deploy, the ones who have workers, it's not a difficult concept. > But it's also just been captured by society itself. We now have access to far more goods and services than ever before, and for incredibly cheap. That is just products getting cheaper due to technology for production, the surplus value of labour is not in this equation. Society didn't capture part of the surplus of value, we just got cheaper products while wages stagnate and the capital class accumulated more and more of wealth. Buying trinkets doesn't make you wealthier.
lurking15 3y ago
It's an inflation phenomenon, it largely stems from the explosive growth and centralization of the government post-WWII and subsequent abolishment of the gold standard. You exchange labor for Nancy Pelosi's (alternatively replace your preferred congress person) Chuck-E-Cheese tokens and those tokens are being created out of thin air (treasuries being the gold replacement) to finance whatever war, bureaucracy and any other boondoggle imaginable. Now instead of getting tokens that are constrained in their scarcity (gold based), you've got constantly depreciating ones, which means your employer can pay you less every year without lifting a finger. The playing field is in their favor in an inflationary environment cause it's now the laborers' burden to search for new employment if they want a raise.
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
1 worker with a computer in 2000 can do the job of 25 workers in 1970. It does not follow, however, that the 1 worker with 25 times more productivity should be paid 25 times the salary. That's financial insanity. Unless the government voted to map work week hours to productivity so the 1 workers earns the same but works 25 times less. That's financial insanity mandated by the will of the people (i.e., the world we already live in). ;D
- piva00 3y ago
  It doesn't need to be a linear correlation, but there should be some correlation between worker productivity (aka produced value per hour of labour) vs wages. It hasn't happened, at all [1]. And that's ridiculous, workers are much more productive while real wages have stagnated when inflation is taken into account. > When it comes to the pace of annual pay increases, the top 1% wage grew 138% since 1979, while wages for the bottom 90% grew 15% > Middle-class wages are stagnant—Middle-wage workers' hourly wage is up 6% since 1979, low-wage workers' wages are down 5%, while those with very high wages saw a 41% increase [1] https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

by piva00 3y ago

nightski 3y ago

Maybe some has been captured by the "capital elite" or whatever that is (I think personally that is more a function of globalism). But it's also just been captured by society itself. We now have access to far more goods and services than ever before, and for incredibly cheap.

piva00 3y ago
> Maybe some has been captured by the "capital elite" or whatever that is (I think personally that is more a function of globalism). Whatever that is: it's the people who have capital to deploy, the ones who have workers, it's not a difficult concept. > But it's also just been captured by society itself. We now have access to far more goods and services than ever before, and for incredibly cheap. That is just products getting cheaper due to technology for production, the surplus value of labour is not in this equation. Society didn't capture part of the surplus of value, we just got cheaper products while wages stagnate and the capital class accumulated more and more of wealth. Buying trinkets doesn't make you wealthier.

lurking15 3y ago

It's an inflation phenomenon, it largely stems from the explosive growth and centralization of the government post-WWII and subsequent abolishment of the gold standard. You exchange labor for Nancy Pelosi's (alternatively replace your preferred congress person) Chuck-E-Cheese tokens and those tokens are being created out of thin air (treasuries being the gold replacement) to finance whatever war, bureaucracy and any other boondoggle imaginable. Now instead of getting tokens that are constrained in their scarcity (gold based), you've got constantly depreciating ones, which means your employer can pay you less every year without lifting a finger. The playing field is in their favor in an inflationary environment cause it's now the laborers' burden to search for new employment if they want a raise.

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

1 worker with a computer in 2000 can do the job of 25 workers in 1970. It does not follow, however, that the 1 worker with 25 times more productivity should be paid 25 times the salary. That's financial insanity. Unless the government voted to map work week hours to productivity so the 1 workers earns the same but works 25 times less. That's financial insanity mandated by the will of the people (i.e., the world we already live in). ;D

piva00 3y ago
It doesn't need to be a linear correlation, but there should be some correlation between worker productivity (aka produced value per hour of labour) vs wages. It hasn't happened, at all [1]. And that's ridiculous, workers are much more productive while real wages have stagnated when inflation is taken into account. > When it comes to the pace of annual pay increases, the top 1% wage grew 138% since 1979, while wages for the bottom 90% grew 15% > Middle-class wages are stagnant—Middle-wage workers' hourly wage is up 6% since 1979, low-wage workers' wages are down 5%, while those with very high wages saw a 41% increase [1] https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/