8 ms·

Monster Hunter Rise adds new DRM that breaks it on Steam Deck

108 points by Adverblessly 3y ago

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
I like the problem this is causing. If nobody noticed, this is a big company forced by normal users to fix code for linux. Thank you steam deck
Sakos 3y ago
This is concerning and upsetting. The DRM doesn't just break SD support (despite being verified), it prevents the use of mods. This is a game with no PvP of any kind, where most mods are either skins or gameplay/QoL improvements. MHW for example has a mod that adds New Game+. Also, I already own the game, so it's not like I can choose to not buy it.
- causi 3y ago
  I suppose if you want to get what you paid for you have to pirate it.
  - butz 3y ago
    Isn't there a way to download older versions of game on Steam? Or one just have to backup own games right after purchase, just in case?
    - izacus 3y ago
      Only if the publisher allows it and specifically creates rollback point. The days where you, the customer, decided whether to apply a patch, install original version or rollback are long over. I bet breaking a verified game on Steam Deck isn't even covered by basic consumer protection.
      - spencerhakim 3y ago
        Steam has a hidden debug console that allows users to rollback any game to any previous release via the `download_depot` command. It's not remotely as user friendly as when a publisher adds an old version of a game as a beta branch that can be easily switched to in the UI, but as far as I know there's no way to prevent its use.
        _cenw 3y ago
        that only works as long as the old depot is still there, and it usually is just to make it easier to delta update.
    - Adverblessly 3y ago
      I haven't tried it myself, but when I was considering trying Spelunky 2 co-op I ran into this thread which suggests which version of the game works best in co-op and how to make Steam download it https://steamcommunity.com/app/418530/discussions/3/3801651941327528270/ https://steamcommunity.com/app/418530/discussions/3/38016519... I assume you could look up the manifests in steamdb and manually rollback in any game? Monster Hunter Rise at least shows what I think are past versions https://steamdb.info/depot/1446781/manifests/ https://steamdb.info/depot/1446781/manifests/ That said, presumably the older version is covered by the older DRM which may cease to work.
  - falcolas 3y ago
    Or just don't play it? Why is the default always pirating and not just skipping? It's not as if there aren't more games available out there than there is time to play them. Reward the developers/publishers who aren't being asses, and we might just get more of 'em. EDIT: When writing this, I focused too much on piracy and not enough on "you've already bought this." My bad.
    - hibikir 3y ago
      The real problem here is that this was added a ling while after launch. At that point, "don't buy it" is like telling someone that they should have invested in apple in 2006 if they wanted a good retirement. The product changes under you, and the only way to keep it working is piracy. Not ideal.
      - falcolas 3y ago
        Yeah, I kinda forgot about that aspect. If you bought it and it changed out from under you (especially when it drops an entire platform), I can see piracy being acceptable.
    - ndriscoll 3y ago
      In the case, the OP already paid for it and can't get a refund, so the thing they paid for is being stolen from them. Meanwhile, some helpful people on the Internet will--for free--give them the original that they paid for. That said, why judge if they didn't buy it? The publisher decided to specifically ensure that they couldn't be a customer by specifically going out of their way to make it be incompatible with their hardware/OS. So the choices are skipping, or to receive a free, working copy from someone else, so they aren't using any of the publishers resources or affecting them in any way. Why is option 2 morally bad in any way?
      - falcolas 3y ago
        I think you're right in one aspect, if the product is changed out from under us when it's been purchased, finding a working copy is acceptable. > That said, why judge if they didn't buy it? Because my paycheck (I'm a software dev), and the paychecks of millions of other workers, depends on people paying for such products. Pirating smacks of entitlement; it says that everyone is entitled to a product whether they pay for it or not. There's plenty of arguments that it doesn't really impact developers/actors/etc - I've seen most of them on HN - and they're just wrong. Those arguments are just crutches to help pirates believe they are behaving morally. So why is option 2 morally bad? The truth is that piracy does impact developers, actors, writers, artists, and so forth. It disproportionately impacts those who work in the margins, who aren't EA or Universal or Disney. And the truth is that nobody is entitled to a product, even if that product is an IP and not a physical good, created by another person. Anyways, that's my rant.
- ragestorm 3y ago
  Definitely no way I'm grinding the last few trinkets I need with that awful RNG. Mods solve that. The latest creation updates with skyrim broke kb+m. Steam needs the never update option again.
dpoljak 3y ago
This after not fixing the save corrupting bug in Sunbreak expansion basically since it launched doesn't look good... I love the series to bits, but I'll think twice about getting the sequel
dyingkneepad 3y ago
People in the fighting game community (FGC) have been suggesting that Capcom's recent DRM anti-mod changes to some games have been some sort of response to the "incident" where some streamer forgot to remove his 100% Naked Chun-Li Street Fighter 6 skin before he started streaming a tournament. Other people in the FGC say it's not the case, but it's an interesting point to mention.
- kmfrk 3y ago
  Capcom have a history of doing dumb stuff with DRM. They also changed the DRM system with the Iceborne expansion for Monster Hunter World, which created all sorts of issues, partly due to lazy CRC implementation. It lead to a whole cat and mouse situation of fixing their crap: https://old.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/ezpc49/pc_in_case_youre_wondering_why_youre_having/ https://old.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/ezpc49/.... And then there was Resident Evil 8 (Village), which performed checks every time you killed a monster, leading to horrible stutter that ended up being worse than the pirated version that ran better and forced the devs to get their stuff together: https://www.ign.com/articles/resident-evil-8-drm-issues-unofficial-fix-stutter-free https://www.ign.com/articles/resident-evil-8-drm-issues-unof.... They also issued free upgrades to Resident Evil 2, 3, and 7, but some of those upgrades had some performance regressions iirc, but the intentions were benign in this case. All this to say that Capcom have done dumb DRM stuff for a while, but this particular case has had Capcom retroactively add DRM to older games across franchises, which, while new, also looks like the same old antics but applied more broadly. Or, in HN speak: incompetence at scale.
- teirce 3y ago
  This idea has spread outside of the FGC at this point. I see other places mentioning it as well. I also think you were able to mod SFV to be able to use the paid costumes (or whatever you want as evidenced by the Chun-Li scandal in 6) without actually buying them. Different engines, but I'm sure Capcom didn't like it. Another point people bring up is that Capcom has been adding micro-transactions post-launch to some of the new Resident Evil remake titles, that effectively power you up to some degree... In the same way that a mod (or cheat engine or whatever you want to call it) could do for free.
xlii 3y ago
I’m very interested how they handle it. IMO, previous, somewhat more PC oriented release (World) showed Capcom how fertile PC gaming is. Rise working great on Steam Deck was a one up. I talked with friends about doing a Steam Deck party just couple weeks ago. This seems… counterintuitive. But companies make mistakes so in the end it’s all about how they work this out. Ignoring both performance and Steam Deck compatibility doesn’t bode well for the next iteration.
perihelions 3y ago
To be more agnostic, it breaks the game on Linux (with Steam Deck as a special case—being the most popular Linux distro for gaming). - "From reports I've seen it affects Linux desktop too, not just Steam Deck." He's a bunch of such reports: https://www.protondb.com/app/1446780 https://www.protondb.com/app/1446780
johnboiles 3y ago
Best way to prevent piracy is to not let anyone use your software!
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  Hum... I'm sure the pirated version will run just fine.
josephcsible 3y ago
I wish that Capcom had to refund every single user who ever played this on Linux. It shouldn't be legal to stop people from using things that they've previously bought from you.
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  I think if you violate the right of first sale retroactively, the customer should be able to demand a full refund, the item reverts to inventory, and the company has to pay taxes on it.
- bitzun 3y ago
  Could be the basis for a pretty funny class action or mass arbitration.
  - Spoom 3y ago
    Both likely banned in the TOS. Edit: Looked it up and to Capcom's credit, there's no arbitration requirement in the EULA for MH Rise on Steam.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      I seriously doubt you can ban both of them; a company might be able to pick how they address grievances, but it seems unlikely that you can just ToS your way to complete legal immunity like that.
      - malfist 3y ago
        That won't stop then from trying, and with this SCOTUS court, they might rubber-stamp it
      - Spoom 3y ago
        There have at least been attempts via creative restrictions on already-mandatory arbitration, notably 23andMe after their breach[1] updated their TOS to require a mandatory conference with the company before filing arbitration[2], seemingly as a way to prevent mass arbitration (since they could claim to only have enough staff to handle a trickle of such conferences). 1. https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-stole-ancestry-data-on-6-9-million-users/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-s... 2. https://www.23andme.com/legal/terms-of-service/#dispute-resolution-arbitration https://www.23andme.com/legal/terms-of-service/#dispute-reso...
tempoponet 3y ago
It also breaks "Resident Evil 5", a game I have owned for many years but was never able to play because of a broken "Games for Windows Live" DRM that was only recently removed.
- gamepsys 3y ago
  Wow! I'm sure glad I played RE5 in the brief window it was available on Linux.
lvncelot 3y ago
Oh wow, I actually bought Rise to play it on my Steam Deck from time to time, that sucks. Since it's "verified" I'll try to get a refund.
muwtyhg 3y ago
I literally bought it to play on my Steam Deck as it's less graphically intensive than Monster Hunter World (which I read was a bit laggy on the Deck). If this doesn't get fixed, I am going to ask for a refund.
- bitzun 3y ago
  Just refund it now and buy it again later if they fix it. Refunds will also put a little pressure on.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rychco 3y ago
  I’ve been playing MHWorld on my steam deck OLED (low settings) at a consistently smooth 60fps. The only hiccup is the new map introduced in the Iceborne DLC (hoarfrost reach, the area covered in snow) hovers around 55-57. Side note, I’m afraid they’re going to bork MHWorld in an update too. Which would be hugely disappointing as I’ve easily put 100 hours into the game on deck alone.
wilsonnb3 3y ago
Just to clarify, Capcom is not intentionally breaking Linux/proton/steam deck compatibility. They've been updating older games with new anti cheat for a couple weeks and a few of them have been broken on Linux but it is just a lack of testing or incompetence, not maliciousness towards Linux gaming.
- Andrex 3y ago
  Honestly, that's worse. If it were deliberate there would be some feet somewhere that could be held to the fire. In the case of incompetence, everyone just shrugs their shoulders and deals with it.
- bitzun 3y ago
  They've been updating single player games with new DRM. Maybe it's not malice towards Linux users specifically, but I'd call it malice towards their customer base.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Which games are those? At least with Rise it has coop multiplayer. https://www.monsterhunter.com/rise/us/multiplayer/ https://www.monsterhunter.com/rise/us/multiplayer/
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
    Isn’t the cat already out of the bag? If someone was inclined to crack the game, surely that work had already been done with the first release.
- coldpie 3y ago
  > They've been updating older games with new anti cheat for a couple weeks Anti-cheat, or DRM? They're not the same thing.
  - persnickety 3y ago
    What's the difference? To me, DRM is about controlling what the user can do with your software, and anti-cheat seems to match that description.
branon 3y ago
I have 70 hours in this game (plus Sunbreak) on Deck, disappointed they broke it but it's really nothing new, as long as they fix it within a reasonable timeframe I am happy... plenty of other games for the meantime. Especially if Dragons Dogma 2 is getting this same DRM, I would rather they break/fix existing titles and apply that work to DD2, versus launch it with zero support and I wind up unable to play! It's a process.
- dm_me_dogs 3y ago
  Newest Proton Experimental fixes it for me, give it a try!
haunter 3y ago
>We're aware of an issue that is currently preventing Monster Hunter Rise from running on Steam Deck after updating to Ver.16.0.2.0. A hotfix for this issue is planned for release in the very near future. Please stay tuned, and thank you for your patience and understanding https://twitter.com/monsterhunter/status/1749390124385771852 https://twitter.com/monsterhunter/status/1749390124385771852
djmips 3y ago
This article calls for Capcom or Valve to fix the issue but I'd call out the third party DRM providers. Shouldn't this be on the Enigma DRM devs? https://enigmaprotector.com/ https://enigmaprotector.com/

108 points by Adverblessly 3y ago

I like the problem this is causing. If nobody noticed, this is a big company forced by normal users to fix code for linux. Thank you steam deck

Sakos 3y ago

This is concerning and upsetting. The DRM doesn't just break SD support (despite being verified), it prevents the use of mods. This is a game with no PvP of any kind, where most mods are either skins or gameplay/QoL improvements. MHW for example has a mod that adds New Game+. Also, I already own the game, so it's not like I can choose to not buy it.

causi 3y ago
I suppose if you want to get what you paid for you have to pirate it.
- butz 3y ago
  Isn't there a way to download older versions of game on Steam? Or one just have to backup own games right after purchase, just in case?
  - izacus 3y ago
    Only if the publisher allows it and specifically creates rollback point. The days where you, the customer, decided whether to apply a patch, install original version or rollback are long over. I bet breaking a verified game on Steam Deck isn't even covered by basic consumer protection.
    - spencerhakim 3y ago
      Steam has a hidden debug console that allows users to rollback any game to any previous release via the `download_depot` command. It's not remotely as user friendly as when a publisher adds an old version of a game as a beta branch that can be easily switched to in the UI, but as far as I know there's no way to prevent its use.
      - _cenw 3y ago
        that only works as long as the old depot is still there, and it usually is just to make it easier to delta update.
  - Adverblessly 3y ago
    I haven't tried it myself, but when I was considering trying Spelunky 2 co-op I ran into this thread which suggests which version of the game works best in co-op and how to make Steam download it https://steamcommunity.com/app/418530/discussions/3/3801651941327528270/ https://steamcommunity.com/app/418530/discussions/3/38016519... I assume you could look up the manifests in steamdb and manually rollback in any game? Monster Hunter Rise at least shows what I think are past versions https://steamdb.info/depot/1446781/manifests/ https://steamdb.info/depot/1446781/manifests/ That said, presumably the older version is covered by the older DRM which may cease to work.
- falcolas 3y ago
  Or just don't play it? Why is the default always pirating and not just skipping? It's not as if there aren't more games available out there than there is time to play them. Reward the developers/publishers who aren't being asses, and we might just get more of 'em. EDIT: When writing this, I focused too much on piracy and not enough on "you've already bought this." My bad.
  - hibikir 3y ago
    The real problem here is that this was added a ling while after launch. At that point, "don't buy it" is like telling someone that they should have invested in apple in 2006 if they wanted a good retirement. The product changes under you, and the only way to keep it working is piracy. Not ideal.
    - falcolas 3y ago
      Yeah, I kinda forgot about that aspect. If you bought it and it changed out from under you (especially when it drops an entire platform), I can see piracy being acceptable.
  - ndriscoll 3y ago
    In the case, the OP already paid for it and can't get a refund, so the thing they paid for is being stolen from them. Meanwhile, some helpful people on the Internet will--for free--give them the original that they paid for. That said, why judge if they didn't buy it? The publisher decided to specifically ensure that they couldn't be a customer by specifically going out of their way to make it be incompatible with their hardware/OS. So the choices are skipping, or to receive a free, working copy from someone else, so they aren't using any of the publishers resources or affecting them in any way. Why is option 2 morally bad in any way?
    - falcolas 3y ago
      I think you're right in one aspect, if the product is changed out from under us when it's been purchased, finding a working copy is acceptable. > That said, why judge if they didn't buy it? Because my paycheck (I'm a software dev), and the paychecks of millions of other workers, depends on people paying for such products. Pirating smacks of entitlement; it says that everyone is entitled to a product whether they pay for it or not. There's plenty of arguments that it doesn't really impact developers/actors/etc - I've seen most of them on HN - and they're just wrong. Those arguments are just crutches to help pirates believe they are behaving morally. So why is option 2 morally bad? The truth is that piracy does impact developers, actors, writers, artists, and so forth. It disproportionately impacts those who work in the margins, who aren't EA or Universal or Disney. And the truth is that nobody is entitled to a product, even if that product is an IP and not a physical good, created by another person. Anyways, that's my rant.
ragestorm 3y ago
Definitely no way I'm grinding the last few trinkets I need with that awful RNG. Mods solve that. The latest creation updates with skyrim broke kb+m. Steam needs the never update option again.

dpoljak 3y ago

This after not fixing the save corrupting bug in Sunbreak expansion basically since it launched doesn't look good... I love the series to bits, but I'll think twice about getting the sequel

dyingkneepad 3y ago

People in the fighting game community (FGC) have been suggesting that Capcom's recent DRM anti-mod changes to some games have been some sort of response to the "incident" where some streamer forgot to remove his 100% Naked Chun-Li Street Fighter 6 skin before he started streaming a tournament. Other people in the FGC say it's not the case, but it's an interesting point to mention.

kmfrk 3y ago
Capcom have a history of doing dumb stuff with DRM. They also changed the DRM system with the Iceborne expansion for Monster Hunter World, which created all sorts of issues, partly due to lazy CRC implementation. It lead to a whole cat and mouse situation of fixing their crap: https://old.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/ezpc49/pc_in_case_youre_wondering_why_youre_having/ https://old.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/ezpc49/.... And then there was Resident Evil 8 (Village), which performed checks every time you killed a monster, leading to horrible stutter that ended up being worse than the pirated version that ran better and forced the devs to get their stuff together: https://www.ign.com/articles/resident-evil-8-drm-issues-unofficial-fix-stutter-free https://www.ign.com/articles/resident-evil-8-drm-issues-unof.... They also issued free upgrades to Resident Evil 2, 3, and 7, but some of those upgrades had some performance regressions iirc, but the intentions were benign in this case. All this to say that Capcom have done dumb DRM stuff for a while, but this particular case has had Capcom retroactively add DRM to older games across franchises, which, while new, also looks like the same old antics but applied more broadly. Or, in HN speak: incompetence at scale.
teirce 3y ago
This idea has spread outside of the FGC at this point. I see other places mentioning it as well. I also think you were able to mod SFV to be able to use the paid costumes (or whatever you want as evidenced by the Chun-Li scandal in 6) without actually buying them. Different engines, but I'm sure Capcom didn't like it. Another point people bring up is that Capcom has been adding micro-transactions post-launch to some of the new Resident Evil remake titles, that effectively power you up to some degree... In the same way that a mod (or cheat engine or whatever you want to call it) could do for free.

xlii 3y ago

I’m very interested how they handle it. IMO, previous, somewhat more PC oriented release (World) showed Capcom how fertile PC gaming is. Rise working great on Steam Deck was a one up. I talked with friends about doing a Steam Deck party just couple weeks ago. This seems… counterintuitive. But companies make mistakes so in the end it’s all about how they work this out. Ignoring both performance and Steam Deck compatibility doesn’t bode well for the next iteration.

perihelions 3y ago

To be more agnostic, it breaks the game on Linux (with Steam Deck as a special case—being the most popular Linux distro for gaming). - "From reports I've seen it affects Linux desktop too, not just Steam Deck." He's a bunch of such reports: https://www.protondb.com/app/1446780 https://www.protondb.com/app/1446780

johnboiles 3y ago

Best way to prevent piracy is to not let anyone use your software!

marcosdumay 3y ago
Hum... I'm sure the pirated version will run just fine.

josephcsible 3y ago

I wish that Capcom had to refund every single user who ever played this on Linux. It shouldn't be legal to stop people from using things that they've previously bought from you.

Gibbon1 3y ago
I think if you violate the right of first sale retroactively, the customer should be able to demand a full refund, the item reverts to inventory, and the company has to pay taxes on it.
bitzun 3y ago
Could be the basis for a pretty funny class action or mass arbitration.
- Spoom 3y ago
  Both likely banned in the TOS. Edit: Looked it up and to Capcom's credit, there's no arbitration requirement in the EULA for MH Rise on Steam.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    I seriously doubt you can ban both of them; a company might be able to pick how they address grievances, but it seems unlikely that you can just ToS your way to complete legal immunity like that.
    - malfist 3y ago
      That won't stop then from trying, and with this SCOTUS court, they might rubber-stamp it
    - Spoom 3y ago
      There have at least been attempts via creative restrictions on already-mandatory arbitration, notably 23andMe after their breach[1] updated their TOS to require a mandatory conference with the company before filing arbitration[2], seemingly as a way to prevent mass arbitration (since they could claim to only have enough staff to handle a trickle of such conferences). 1. https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-stole-ancestry-data-on-6-9-million-users/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-s... 2. https://www.23andme.com/legal/terms-of-service/#dispute-resolution-arbitration https://www.23andme.com/legal/terms-of-service/#dispute-reso...

tempoponet 3y ago

It also breaks "Resident Evil 5", a game I have owned for many years but was never able to play because of a broken "Games for Windows Live" DRM that was only recently removed.

gamepsys 3y ago
Wow! I'm sure glad I played RE5 in the brief window it was available on Linux.

lvncelot 3y ago

Oh wow, I actually bought Rise to play it on my Steam Deck from time to time, that sucks. Since it's "verified" I'll try to get a refund.

muwtyhg 3y ago

I literally bought it to play on my Steam Deck as it's less graphically intensive than Monster Hunter World (which I read was a bit laggy on the Deck). If this doesn't get fixed, I am going to ask for a refund.

bitzun 3y ago
Just refund it now and buy it again later if they fix it. Refunds will also put a little pressure on.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rychco 3y ago
I’ve been playing MHWorld on my steam deck OLED (low settings) at a consistently smooth 60fps. The only hiccup is the new map introduced in the Iceborne DLC (hoarfrost reach, the area covered in snow) hovers around 55-57. Side note, I’m afraid they’re going to bork MHWorld in an update too. Which would be hugely disappointing as I’ve easily put 100 hours into the game on deck alone.

wilsonnb3 3y ago

Just to clarify, Capcom is not intentionally breaking Linux/proton/steam deck compatibility. They've been updating older games with new anti cheat for a couple weeks and a few of them have been broken on Linux but it is just a lack of testing or incompetence, not maliciousness towards Linux gaming.

Andrex 3y ago
Honestly, that's worse. If it were deliberate there would be some feet somewhere that could be held to the fire. In the case of incompetence, everyone just shrugs their shoulders and deals with it.
bitzun 3y ago
They've been updating single player games with new DRM. Maybe it's not malice towards Linux users specifically, but I'd call it malice towards their customer base.
- gruez 3y ago
  Which games are those? At least with Rise it has coop multiplayer. https://www.monsterhunter.com/rise/us/multiplayer/ https://www.monsterhunter.com/rise/us/multiplayer/
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  Isn’t the cat already out of the bag? If someone was inclined to crack the game, surely that work had already been done with the first release.
coldpie 3y ago
> They've been updating older games with new anti cheat for a couple weeks Anti-cheat, or DRM? They're not the same thing.
- persnickety 3y ago
  What's the difference? To me, DRM is about controlling what the user can do with your software, and anti-cheat seems to match that description.

branon 3y ago

I have 70 hours in this game (plus Sunbreak) on Deck, disappointed they broke it but it's really nothing new, as long as they fix it within a reasonable timeframe I am happy... plenty of other games for the meantime. Especially if Dragons Dogma 2 is getting this same DRM, I would rather they break/fix existing titles and apply that work to DD2, versus launch it with zero support and I wind up unable to play! It's a process.

dm_me_dogs 3y ago
Newest Proton Experimental fixes it for me, give it a try!

haunter 3y ago

>We're aware of an issue that is currently preventing Monster Hunter Rise from running on Steam Deck after updating to Ver.16.0.2.0. A hotfix for this issue is planned for release in the very near future. Please stay tuned, and thank you for your patience and understanding https://twitter.com/monsterhunter/status/1749390124385771852 https://twitter.com/monsterhunter/status/1749390124385771852

djmips 3y ago

This article calls for Capcom or Valve to fix the issue but I'd call out the third party DRM providers. Shouldn't this be on the Enigma DRM devs? https://enigmaprotector.com/ https://enigmaprotector.com/