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The term "conspiracy theory" is stopthink. The government only has to use the label in order to discredit a claim of wrong-doing. I think that this comes down

by ilaksh 3y ago

The term "conspiracy theory" is stopthink. The government only has to use the label in order to discredit a claim of wrong-doing. I think that this comes down to worldview. Many people need to believe that their government is by and large completely ethical. But governments often behave in ways that are strategic and explicitly not ethical. This goes for your favorite government also. One experiment a "normal" non "conspiracy-theorist" can do is to think back as far as you like into the history of your own government. Go as far back as you need. At some point you will run into an acknowledged historical event where your government did something rather heinous and possibly quite deceptive. Then run forward in your knowledge of history of your government and you will find at least a few other acts that were reprehensible. The interesting thing is that for most people, there is a magical cut-off date a few decades back where suddenly any such supposedly historical heinous act becomes an "insane conspiracy theory". Another big issue is that people will use the same term to describe absolute utter nonsense as they do to refer to real events or activities that they don't want to admit their government was involved with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9#Thought-terminating_clich.C3.A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A... https://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/11-unbelievable-conspiracy-theories-that-were-actually-true.htm https://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/11-unbelie...

atoav 3y ago
> The term "conspiracy theory" is stop-think. The government only has to use the label in order to discredit a claim of wrong-doing. I don't think so. The government calling something a conspiracy theory does not discredit a theory automatically – in fact it could lead to the polar opposite. If your theory is legit and other people can check it objectively a government calling it a conspiracy theory likely leads to more eyeballs checking that thing and if it is not someones anti-government-fan-fiction it might gain traction. The best move a government can make when someone has a legit conspiracy theory that has some factual basis is don't make any public statements about it. Conspiracy narratives (the word theory should be reserved for things that can be actually replicated) are good when the government wants to muddy the waters, but to do so they don't have to call things a conspiracy theory, they just have to sow the right seeds and let the right people disocover it. That being said, when I hear conspiracy theory, I typically think about people who have a believe, ignore objective facts that don't fit said believe and cherrypick "evidence" that does. And half of those people don't believe this themselves, they are in it for the greater fool. It isn't called a conspiracy theory, because it is a theory about a conspiracy, it is called a conspiracy theory, because every fact speaking against it can be explained by a big enough conspiracy. That doesn't mean there are no real conspiracies and actual historic, scientific and/or journalistic ways of pinning those down. It just means that what we commonly call "conspiracy theorists" aren't good at not lying to themselves (something good journalists, historians and scientists are good at).
- antifa 3y ago
  > Conspiracy narratives (the word theory should be reserved for things that can be actually replicated) I've always liked the term "conspiracy showerthought".
cauch 3y ago
Answering to the "look at history" part of your comment only (I agree on the bit about the problem of using "it's a conspiracy" about everything, but it's a symmetric problem: there is at least as many people that accuse people to do that when people, correctly, point out that their theory is rubbish). My understanding of "conspiracy theory" is "things that idiots believe despite the fact that they don't possess any proofs to justify their belief", not "things that are incorrect" (and wikipedia seems to say the same thing). Real conspiracies exist. They are NEVER discovered by conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy theorists just invent theories that they want to believe, and the chance that they end up inventing something that is true is 1 over 10^30. Inversely, proper investigation, usually done by institutional organisms (the same one the conspiracy theorists are criticizing all the time) is what uncover the real historical conspiracies. The problem with conspiracy theories is not that they are true or false. The problem is that people who believe in them are idiots: they don't have any element that allows them to conclude what they conclude with certainty, and yet they are convinced it's true. These people are dangerous: they are anti-scientific and driven by emotion and by what is more convenient for them to believe. These people are like the stereotypical mobs that burned the witches: they don't care about truth or justice, the world would be a better place without them. So, I think we should be careful when explaining that real conspiracies have existed: even if, by chance, a conspiracy theorist turns out the be right, this person is still an idiot for being convinced by something without having any proofs.
- hindsightbias 3y ago
  Remember all those millions of people who said 9/11 was a plot to steal all the Afghan minerals and Arab Oil? Derp.
  - illuminant 3y ago
    9/11 destroyed the records of Americas thought control program (tower 7). 250,000 Americans were on the payroll, as well as the locations of domestic tactical nuclear watch facilities. This one act literally cut the head off the accountability program so these black sites and operatives could thrive untraceable and undetected. These groups then extorted America (and still do.) Derpy indeed.

by ilaksh 3y ago

atoav 3y ago

> The term "conspiracy theory" is stop-think. The government only has to use the label in order to discredit a claim of wrong-doing. I don't think so. The government calling something a conspiracy theory does not discredit a theory automatically – in fact it could lead to the polar opposite. If your theory is legit and other people can check it objectively a government calling it a conspiracy theory likely leads to more eyeballs checking that thing and if it is not someones anti-government-fan-fiction it might gain traction. The best move a government can make when someone has a legit conspiracy theory that has some factual basis is don't make any public statements about it. Conspiracy narratives (the word theory should be reserved for things that can be actually replicated) are good when the government wants to muddy the waters, but to do so they don't have to call things a conspiracy theory, they just have to sow the right seeds and let the right people disocover it. That being said, when I hear conspiracy theory, I typically think about people who have a believe, ignore objective facts that don't fit said believe and cherrypick "evidence" that does. And half of those people don't believe this themselves, they are in it for the greater fool. It isn't called a conspiracy theory, because it is a theory about a conspiracy, it is called a conspiracy theory, because every fact speaking against it can be explained by a big enough conspiracy. That doesn't mean there are no real conspiracies and actual historic, scientific and/or journalistic ways of pinning those down. It just means that what we commonly call "conspiracy theorists" aren't good at not lying to themselves (something good journalists, historians and scientists are good at).

antifa 3y ago
> Conspiracy narratives (the word theory should be reserved for things that can be actually replicated) I've always liked the term "conspiracy showerthought".

cauch 3y ago

Answering to the "look at history" part of your comment only (I agree on the bit about the problem of using "it's a conspiracy" about everything, but it's a symmetric problem: there is at least as many people that accuse people to do that when people, correctly, point out that their theory is rubbish). My understanding of "conspiracy theory" is "things that idiots believe despite the fact that they don't possess any proofs to justify their belief", not "things that are incorrect" (and wikipedia seems to say the same thing). Real conspiracies exist. They are NEVER discovered by conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy theorists just invent theories that they want to believe, and the chance that they end up inventing something that is true is 1 over 10^30. Inversely, proper investigation, usually done by institutional organisms (the same one the conspiracy theorists are criticizing all the time) is what uncover the real historical conspiracies. The problem with conspiracy theories is not that they are true or false. The problem is that people who believe in them are idiots: they don't have any element that allows them to conclude what they conclude with certainty, and yet they are convinced it's true. These people are dangerous: they are anti-scientific and driven by emotion and by what is more convenient for them to believe. These people are like the stereotypical mobs that burned the witches: they don't care about truth or justice, the world would be a better place without them. So, I think we should be careful when explaining that real conspiracies have existed: even if, by chance, a conspiracy theorist turns out the be right, this person is still an idiot for being convinced by something without having any proofs.

hindsightbias 3y ago
Remember all those millions of people who said 9/11 was a plot to steal all the Afghan minerals and Arab Oil? Derp.
- illuminant 3y ago
  9/11 destroyed the records of Americas thought control program (tower 7). 250,000 Americans were on the payroll, as well as the locations of domestic tactical nuclear watch facilities. This one act literally cut the head off the accountability program so these black sites and operatives could thrive untraceable and undetected. These groups then extorted America (and still do.) Derpy indeed.