9 ms·

That's a good observation, but the part where this breaks down is that these evangelists are clearly not Cristian.

by foofie 3y ago

zaphar 3y ago
You are correct which is why it's important to call them out on that.
baobabKoodaa 3y ago
> these evangelists are clearly not Cristian No true scottsman would ever have perpetrated such a scam. In fact, true scottsmen never do anything bad.
- foofie 3y ago
  > No true scottsman would ever have perpetrated such a scam. I'm not referring to the scam. I'm referring to not abiding by basic tenets of the Christian faith.
  - baobabKoodaa 3y ago
    Some members of _your faith_ perpetrated a scam, and you're trying to deny their membership in your group. Sure you can make up whatever reason you want to do that. That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Just make some shit up.
    - foofie 3y ago
      > Some members of _your faith_ (...) It's not my faith. Also, televangelists aren't christian either. Again, those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion. > That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Either you haven't got the point or you're just trying to be contrarian. I think the point I made is clear and easy to understand. I won't repeat myself.
      - baobabKoodaa 3y ago
        > those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion I don't know what you are referring to as the "basic" tenets of a religion. The majority of muslim men in western societies drink alcohol even though it is strictly forbidden in the Quran, and yet those men are considered to be "muslim" regardless. You can find various infractions for any follower of any religion and then subsequently argue that this person isn't following the "basic tenets" of that religion and therefore is not a member of that group. That's the "no true scottsman" argument that you can make to rhetorically "remove" "undesirable" members from the group and thus make the group look better. It has nothing to do with reality. Televangelists are very obviously, very clearly, Christian. They don't follow all of the teachings of the Bible, just like no other Christian follows all of the teachings of the Bible. Not sure who gave you the authority to dictate what their religious identity is.
        walljm 3y ago
        I don't know enough to comment on the specifics of your thread with the other poster, but I thought I would offer a suggestion for "Core Tenents". Though there are many instructions in scripture that many christians ignore or fail to live up to, there are a set of core beliefs that comprise the essential nature of the Christian faith. The Apostles Creed summarizes most of them for Christianity. As an example, if you deny the deity of Jesus, then you can not reasonably claim to be a christian. This is the case with Mormon's, who are sometimes called Christians, but whose theology differs in significant ways from Christianity. --- There is also another way to approach the idea of "that person isn't really a christian". Though it is in fact, impossible for a human to judge definitively, Jesus does say that "you shall know them by their love one for another" (John 13:35). And the bible does teach that under certain circumstances, the Church is to treat someone claiming to be christian as though they are not, because they refuse to acknowledge and/or address behaviors that are instructed in scripture. The Church isn't generally good at that, which may be the point of the OP. But, it does allow the Church to say that someone who unrepentantly practices sinful behavior doesn't represent Christianity.
        3y ago
bloomingeek 3y ago
Yes! But when will the church have the courage to point this out? Fact based judgement is righteous.

That's a good observation, but the part where this breaks down is that these evangelists are clearly not Cristian.

by foofie 3y ago

That's a good observation, but the part where this breaks down is that these evangelists are clearly not Cristian.

zaphar 3y ago

You are correct which is why it's important to call them out on that.

baobabKoodaa 3y ago

> these evangelists are clearly not Cristian No true scottsman would ever have perpetrated such a scam. In fact, true scottsmen never do anything bad.

foofie 3y ago
> No true scottsman would ever have perpetrated such a scam. I'm not referring to the scam. I'm referring to not abiding by basic tenets of the Christian faith.
- baobabKoodaa 3y ago
  Some members of _your faith_ perpetrated a scam, and you're trying to deny their membership in your group. Sure you can make up whatever reason you want to do that. That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Just make some shit up.
  - foofie 3y ago
    > Some members of _your faith_ (...) It's not my faith. Also, televangelists aren't christian either. Again, those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion. > That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Either you haven't got the point or you're just trying to be contrarian. I think the point I made is clear and easy to understand. I won't repeat myself.
    - baobabKoodaa 3y ago
      > those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion I don't know what you are referring to as the "basic" tenets of a religion. The majority of muslim men in western societies drink alcohol even though it is strictly forbidden in the Quran, and yet those men are considered to be "muslim" regardless. You can find various infractions for any follower of any religion and then subsequently argue that this person isn't following the "basic tenets" of that religion and therefore is not a member of that group. That's the "no true scottsman" argument that you can make to rhetorically "remove" "undesirable" members from the group and thus make the group look better. It has nothing to do with reality. Televangelists are very obviously, very clearly, Christian. They don't follow all of the teachings of the Bible, just like no other Christian follows all of the teachings of the Bible. Not sure who gave you the authority to dictate what their religious identity is.
      - walljm 3y ago
        I don't know enough to comment on the specifics of your thread with the other poster, but I thought I would offer a suggestion for "Core Tenents". Though there are many instructions in scripture that many christians ignore or fail to live up to, there are a set of core beliefs that comprise the essential nature of the Christian faith. The Apostles Creed summarizes most of them for Christianity. As an example, if you deny the deity of Jesus, then you can not reasonably claim to be a christian. This is the case with Mormon's, who are sometimes called Christians, but whose theology differs in significant ways from Christianity. --- There is also another way to approach the idea of "that person isn't really a christian". Though it is in fact, impossible for a human to judge definitively, Jesus does say that "you shall know them by their love one for another" (John 13:35). And the bible does teach that under certain circumstances, the Church is to treat someone claiming to be christian as though they are not, because they refuse to acknowledge and/or address behaviors that are instructed in scripture. The Church isn't generally good at that, which may be the point of the OP. But, it does allow the Church to say that someone who unrepentantly practices sinful behavior doesn't represent Christianity.
        3y ago

bloomingeek 3y ago

Yes! But when will the church have the courage to point this out? Fact based judgement is righteous.