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Remembering Bell Labs as legendary idea factory prepares to leave N.J. home
- sambeau 3y agoI couldn't read past this photo caption:- "In 1969, Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson developed UNIX, a computer programming language. Nokia" :-|
- user_7832 3y agoI have a question for anyone in an R&D/Bell Labs-esque place - are there any good recommendations for similar places to work, particularly outside the US? "Old" Google apparently was, but going by what ex-googlers have been saying it hasn't been the case for a long while now.
- carterschonwald 3y agoI was wondering the same myself. Albeit in the us or nyc. :) I’ve had middling success creating opportunities but that’s very far from being in an environment where there so much interesting going on around you
- thatcat 3y agoFreelance product design is a good field for this type work, but you don't really see it concentrated into a unified r/d location like bell had often. Also @dsgnr you're posts are currently hell banned
- user_7832 3y agoThanks, product design is something I've also considered. I'd guess Apple/MS style companies are probably still the best bet, even though you're more restricted than what it probably was at Bell.
- ghaff 3y agoI'm sure a lot of people will reflexively run in the opposite direction but IBM still has a large research organization.
- carterschonwald 3y agoAlso their lab isn’t anywhere I’d want to live. Interestingly enough, a lot of senior ibm labs folks have joined jpmorgan or similar organizations over time
- compsciphd 3y agobetween westchester and nyc one has a lot of varying environments to live in if working at IBM Research. I used to commute up to it from Manhattan without any problem (nice reverse commute in general). Hawthorne (now closed) was a bit easier than Yorktown, but both were fairly easy (if memory serves me correct, yorktown was only an additional 15 minutes or so).
- dsgnr 3y agoAs a freelance product designer I'm always learning and always excited about work. There are so many interesting companies working on so many interesting problems.
- dleink 3y agoWhat takes up most of your time? Do you work with vendors to create and then produce the product or just do the design phase?
- dsgnr 3y agoIt depends on the needs of the client, and Ive done a little bit of everything from designing moulds and sourcing factories for physical products, to writing frontend code to help ship.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoMicrosoft Research, though it has a reputation for coming up with great ideas that somehow never end-up in a shipping Microsoft product.
- user_7832 3y agoThanks, I've found some of their design guidelines have legitimately changing my worldview (eg situational disabilities).
- esafak 3y agoFor some that's a plus!
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoFor me a negative: If I remember correctly, MSR worked on a practical implementation of Code-Contracts for C# which incorporated the (all-important) compile-time verification of method preconditions, postconditions, and class invariants (without the need for hand-written refinement-types, which is how we do things today): as I understand it, the compile-time part of system could support any assertion represented as a pure-function - think of it as C#'s take on Ada's assertions, improved tenfold, and it even shipped for a now-unsupported older version of C# and .NET: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/debug-trace-profile/code-contracts https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/debug-tra... ...and it was axed in .NET Core back in 2016 and hasn't been seen since: https://github.com/microsoft/CodeContracts/issues/409 https://github.com/microsoft/CodeContracts/issues/409 Had Microsoft put more backing behind it, then C# could present itself as a language to supplant Ada in safety-critical applications, and replace C/C++ in other applications. I have hope the feature will come back one-day - there are whole slews of bugs that can be eliminated (such as when passing EF entity types around with unintentionally null member-properties).
- esafak 3y agoIsn't that replacement called F#?
- LeonardoTolstoy 3y agoIf you are in the UK Deepmind seemed to be that way to me when I applied. A lot of research groups doing hard research in a wide array of fields, cutting edge AI stuff, a core team of SEs developing in house programs for researchers, and research engineers for productionization. And no, I didn't get the job lol. I've heard mixed things about it as a company but GResearch (also UK) seemed like an interesting R&D software / math mix in the vein of investment banking. I applied there over ten years ago so YMMV at this point, who knows.
- chicagoengineer 3y agoI work at a very successful HFT. It’s a special place, but we’re not advancing the state of the art in fundamental science like the Bell Labs/Microsoft Researches of the world.
- user_7832 3y agoSorry, what's HFT?
- Nullabillity 3y agoHigh-frequency trading, I'd assume. Exploiting the stock market for profit.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoOr providing liquidity to reduce transaction costs for everyone.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoHow high are the costs and how much can you reduce them before you reach diminishing returns? Will it reach zero?
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- whimsicalism 3y agoAny prestige research lab - MS, Google, OAI, etc.
- user_7832 3y agoThanks, that seems to be the trend here
- HarHarVeryFunny 3y agoI'm not sure how many, if any, are doing blue sky research (vs product-directed "research") any more the way that Bell Labs, IBM Watson and Xerox Parc used to do. Look at what's going on with ML/AI - DeepMind now merged with Google Brain seemingly with a product focus, FAIR now moved into a product group alongside Meta's GenAI group, Microsoft essentially outsourcing AI to OpenAI, OpenAI may as well call itself GPTCorp - a single-product commercial enterprise. I guess it's not surprising given how short term the thinking is of today's publicly traded companies.
- potatolicious 3y agoEh, I don't think today's scene is altogether that different from back then. In every case you have a research organization tied to an immensely profitable main enterprise. The vast majority of the work force works on the "product" side and only a small number of researchers are doing blue sky stuff. This describes Bell Labs and Xerox Parc, as well as modern counterparts like MSR and DeepMind. As always, only a very small portion of the work force gets to do blue sky stuff - the rest have to do the "mundane" bits of making money. Let's not be fooled by rose-tinted glasses here - even in its heyday Bell Labs was small fraction of the overall Bell operations, and likewise Xerox Parc an extremely prestigious but yet small slice of the overall enterprise.
- whimsicalism 3y ago> DeepMind now merged with Google Brain seemingly with a product focus, FAI I don’t really agree that training massive causal LMs is a “product focus”. I agree that there is an increasing product focus in orgs like OAI, but a lot of that is coming from new growth rather than trading off with base research.
- jebarker 3y agoDisney Imagineering? I have no direct experience but I'm continually impressed by the technical innovations they make public and the effects they manage to achieve in their products.
- user_7832 3y agoThanks, that sounds interesting.
- fortran77 3y agoWorked for them for about 10 years. Fun place, but I'm not sure it'll ever be like the old days where research was done for research's sake. So many things are now off-the-shelf, and not much is invented in house.
- ycombinatrix 3y agoall they can do is mechanical engineering. anything they ship involving software is usually an abject failure.
- bargle0 3y agoWhat are you looking for? DOE national labs and similar institutions may fit the bill.
- deadly-penguin 3y agoA government, or government funded, research lab. Mostly they want research scientists, but engineers also work in those places.
- eatonphil 3y agoThe new home is still NJ: New Brunswick. > When Nokia’s research arm, Nokia Bell Labs, said in early December the company will move out of the Murray Hill campus over the next five years to relocate to a new tech hub being built in New Brunswick, the announcement spurred an outpouring of memories online from current and former employees. > Bell Labs’ new headquarters will be located at the HELIX innovation center in New Brunswick. Originally known as “The Hub,” the HELIX innovation center will be a large complex in the city’s downtown on the site of the former Ferren Mall. More news on the real estate side of things: https://re-nj.com/legacy-moment-inside-the-landmark-deal-to-bring-nokia-bell-labs-to-new-brunswicks-helix-campus/ https://re-nj.com/legacy-moment-inside-the-landmark-deal-to-... I'm excited for New Brunswick here. Would love to see this small city develop. With relatively cheap cost of living, Rutgers, decent zoning (they've got a number of highrises and seem to be adding more), and being a few train stops away from NYC (and a direct bus IIRC?) it seems like a really compelling place to invest in.
- stn8188 3y agoI agree that investment in the city of New Brunswick seems like a great idea for the reasons you stated. At the same time, it just feels so grand and historic to walk the same halls as the likes of Shannon, and it's a bit sad that I may not be able to see it again. (I've only visited a handful of times to work on some joint projects though). Hopefully the new lab space/equipment will be very modern and efficient though! One last thought... Traffic is gonna be a bear for anyone driving in! It was miserable a decade ago when I was at Rutgers.
- grepfru_it 3y agoNB resident here. It’s still miserable, but removing stop lights on route 18 between landing lane and the turnpike made things excellent for folks getting to somerset/piscataway!
- vannucci 3y agoNB/EB resident, has construction ever stopped in this area since 2000? I'm glad that 18 is finally (mostly) done as you say
- Lyngbakr 3y agoI'm currently halfway through The Idea Factory: Bell Labs & the Great Age of American Innovation by Jon Gertner. The stories and characters behind all the inventions and ideas are absolutely fascinating, as is the culture they cultivated there. Definitely recommended!
- mk_stjames 3y agoI came here to recommend this book as the title of this article mirrors its title's key descriptor. It's one of my favorite books; throughout my time reading it I would periodically put it down and just sit with awe in imagining the science and the work happening there throughout the years depicted. I need to sit down and read it again; but I'm afraid to, as in a way it just gives me this odd sense of mixed unfounded nostalgia and jealousy and a bit of dread for not being a part of something similar anymore.
- diggan 3y ago> and jealousy and a bit of dread for not being a part of something similar anymore. In some corridor, somewhere in the world, the next Bell Labs is currently under way and others will read books about it in the future. You just have to figure out where it is :)
- hnthrowaway0328 3y agoI think the PC storm is definitely gone. Nowadays everything needs a doctor or something. It's a one shot thing in maybe a few centuries.
- 101011 3y agoI heard about this book from hackernews a year or two ago. I'm not a big non-fiction fan, but I absolutely devoured that book. Strong plus one about Gertner's great work here.
- jlarcombe 3y agoyes - really great book
- kilroy123 3y agoIs there a Bell Labs of today? If so who or where?
- whimsicalism 3y agoPrestige AI labs. But for hardware? I am not sure.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- CamperBob2 3y agoAlways interesting stuff being worked on at NIST and JILA in Boulder.
- chrispeel 3y agoIt's called "the internet". People from around the world can collaborate easily on incredibly projects such as Linux or OpenRISC. Or on closed-source projects as used by FAANG companies.
- justin66 3y agoHamming and Shannon, provided with lifetime employment and sharing an office, working for an organization that does things like invent the transistor. @FurryRubyProgrammer and @IHuffFarts conversing on a Discord channel. It's exactly the same thing.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoThere are a few remaining, 3M has one, but much smaller.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- photochemsyn 3y agoThis article - a retrospective puff piece - entirely neglects the circumstances leading to the loss of relevance of Bell Labs. It's explained in the autoposy of one of the greatest scientific frauds (fabricated nanoelectronic devices made of organic carbon materials e.g. pentacene) of the past few decades [1]: > "For over half a century, Bell Labs had been owned by the telephone monopoly AT&T and had plenty of money to spend on science. But in 1984, the monopoly broke up, and after 1989, managers encouraged Bell Lab researchers to focus on research with commercial applications. Disenchanted, top scientists began to leave for universities and were mostly not replaced by new recruits. In 1995, ownership of Bell Labs was transferred to the newly formed company Lucent Technologies." Then Lucent got hit by the dot-com bubble blowout, resulting in a 30% loss of share value in Jan 2000. This led to a new focus on PR: > "By keeping up its practice of releasing exciting scientific findings, the lab could continue to demonstrate to investors, customers and anyone else that Lucent had a sound, long-term technological future. Again, this was a question of survival: with revenues falling, managers had to make the argument that their jobs and the jobs of their staff were worth keeping." This led to a culture in which critical scrutiny of the claims of one fraudulent researcher was discouraged in favor of institutional cheerleading, and the end result was that 15 papers published in Science and Nature had to be retracted. [1] "Plastic Fantastic: How the Biggest Fraud in Physics Shook the Scientific World" (2009) Eugenie Samuel Reich. If you want a parable for what's happened to Bell Labs and many other scientific institutions in the US, it's that of the greedy farmer killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.
- GlibMonkeyDeath 3y agoThe farmer lost his monopoly on wheat, so he couldn't feed that wildly expensive goose any more. It isn't greed when the farmer would go out of business feeding his goose, especially when those golden eggs wouldn't necessarily help his farming business directly.
- photochemsyn 3y agoI think that what happened is Bayh-Dole legislation passed c.1980 which allowed corporations to exclusively license patents generated with taxpayer funds at public and private universities, so they lost their incentive to maintain large privately-funded research centers, which used to be valuable because they'd have exclusive control of any patents. A side-effect of Bayh-Dole was the gradual conversion of academic institutions into for-profit commercial operations, especially in the STEM fields like chemistry, engineering, medical research, etc. - with accompanying declines in academic integrity, open data sharing, etc. Eliminating Bayh-Dole would mean university-based patents generated with taxpayer funds would be available to any interested party under a non-exclusive licensing program, and then corporations would again be incentivized to maintain private research centers - which IIRC also served a tax-writeoff function for AT&T in Bell Lab's heyday.
- lgkk 3y agoI have walked those halls and let me tell you it feels spooky in a good way to know a lot of groundbreaking work was done there. During the time I was on campus it was mostly empty. There were old computers still inside some rooms. I felt like I had been transported to the 80s or 90s in one hall and some halls even more decades in the past. Really grand. I can’t imagine what it was like in its heyday.
- tomcam 3y agoI’m not a nostalgic person, but for some reason I wish irrationally that that Murray Hill building could be preserved as is. I read so much about of it in the history of computing, and just like (from the pictures) the building interior itself so much I just feel like I missed out on some thing not to have been there myself. I was lucky enough to work at Microsoft in building 2, one of 8 matching buildings from the mid-80s, and it absolutely felt special at the time. In my imagination, it had some of the same vibe as Bell Labs did in its heyday. I was on the Visual Studio team, and great things were happening. I knew it. I also knew that team was special. No one else in Visual Studio seemed that interested – they were just too busy and I think maybe too young to get it. Buildings 1-8 were demolished few years ago, but I had been gone from the company for decades by that time. I did grieve a bit.
- polishdude20 3y agoI wonder where can you find those types of places currently? Places developing the next mRNA vaccines for cancer? Places developing AI? Electric cars?
- tomcam 3y agoI think that if you have a PhD in the right field and enough hip publications that many of the FAANG companies still have research teams like that operating in a diminished capacity. It appears to me that many of these positions have been replaced by administrators who are more interested in hiring to a specific set of demographics.
- Scubabear68 3y agoNot just Murray Hill, but all of their offices were special. I went to Holmdel High and my girlfriend’s dad was a distinguished engineer at the Holmdel Bell Labs installation, we drove by regularly (loved the transistor water tower), and got to visit him inside the building a few times. It was awe inspiring as an 18 year old to enter into such a sacred hall of engineering and science. I had a strong engineering bent since I was little, but knowing such a towering figure cemented it (inventor of Adaptive Delta Modulation).
- Zigurd 3y agoI got to visit the Holmdel site a couple times, once in its heyday and once after it was half empty and down at the heels - an eerie vibe. It was an awesome sight when first arriving. It is colossal. Pictures don't do it justice. A symbol of economic power. Later I learned it was largely made possible by the government negotiating a deal with AT&T. It was a kind of crony capitalism Camelot. An industrial policy monument. But it was glorious. Saarinen designed a lot of Peak Industrial America headquarters.
- galacticstone 3y agoFollowing
- chrisrohlf 3y agoThe Murray Hill campus may have been where the bulk of the innovation happened but the former Holmdel site is the architectural gem of the two. Thankfully it was preserved and is now functional and used as ‘Bell Works’.
- I_am_uncreative 3y agoI really wanted to work at the historic Bell Labs campus. Sad they're leaving.
- zactato 3y agoI wonder if the Google and such will be remembered like bell labs in 50 years?
- dclowd9901 3y ago> “Let me tell you, I never felt I was going to work, never,” said Romero, who retired as a corporate accountant in 2009 from the famed Bell Labs headquarters in Murray Hill. Every. Single. Amazing endeavor that’s ever happened has people who describe contributing to that endeavor this way. Every one. It brings to mind the kind of world that could exist without profit motives, where people do things simply because they’ve never been done before. Like maybe the world that Star Trek illustrates. I think the greatest regret in my life isn’t that I won’t see Alpha Centauri with my own eyes, but that we can’t fucking figure out how to make our world like this.
- mista2nith 3y ago[dead]
- ViktorRay 3y agoI used to feel the way you do. I am also a big Star Trek TNG fan. But I feel in the real world the profit motive is pretty important. In systems that have been tried so far that attempted to eliminate the profit motive (Soviet system, Chinese economic system prior to free market reforms) the lack of profit motive seems to have led to stagnation and bloated centralized bureaucrats unable to do things effectively. Also remember that there are lots of important jobs out there for society to function properly that are unglamorous. Lots of jobs in the medical field for example or waste disposal or toilet cleaning and so on. In a world without money who would be doing such jobs? Why would anyone clean toilets without being paid for it? In the Star Trek utopia the assumption is that people would do it anyway for the betterment of society. But today in the real world it seems money and the profit motive is necessary both on a micro level and on a macro level. EDIT: I realized this comment may come off as too argumentative. Not my intention. I sympathize with your underlying sentiment. I just wanted to add my thoughts too. I apologize if any of this came off as hostile in any way
- dreamcompiler 3y ago> Bell Labs was also the birthplace of the UNIX computer operating system, C++ and numerous programming languages. That's okay. Even the most innovative companies are allowed to have to one or two terrible ideas.
- mark-r 3y agoNow where will we get aged copper panels next time the Statue of Liberty needs repairs? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35443585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35443585
- orbisvicis 3y agoDoes anyone know what will happen to the museum?
- danielvaughn 3y agoSeveral years back, I took a trip to a casino up in Connecticut. I'm not big into gambling, but my brother-in-law's mother was a high roller. She got an extra room for free, so we figured why not take advantage of it. We didn't spend much time with her while we were there, but on the last night she wanted to join us with some of her friends for dinner. Since I was going to be having dinner with a group of old retired ladies, I figured we could just make some polite small talk with them and be on our way after the meal. After we ordered drinks, one of them turns to me and says "now what do you do for work?" I said "oh I work with computers", a simple generic phrase I use when talking with older people. She says "oh that's interesting, what specifically?" When I told her I was a software engineer, her face lights up and she points around the room and says "oh that's wonderful - we all did that as well, we worked at a company called Bell Labs. Have you heard of it?" I just about fell out of my chair. For the rest of the night I was asking them all sorts of questions about their work. They were around back when you'd program using punch cards and all that stuff. It was a very cool experience - one of my favorite memories.
- stuff4ben 3y agoMan, what an experience! I got goosebumps just reading that. So much history you could have learned. It's a shame you only got one evening with them. I mean you were with the pioneers of our field. It's like if you just happened to go out to dinner with a bunch of old men and they casually reveal, yes we played baseball too back in NY in 1932, hi, my name is George...
- danielvaughn 3y agoYeah it was quite an experience. They were very old - in their late 70's. I got the sense that they retired somewhere between 1980-1990, which kinda tracks with the sudden gender imbalance in the field. Prior to the 80's, computing had a larger percentage of women in the industry. I also got the sense that even though they knew Bells Labs was important, they weren't quite aware of just how fundamental it was to...well basically everything we do today.
- dfxm12 3y ago