4 ms·

It’s only going to get worse with AI now in the mix.

echelon 3y ago
> It’s only going to get worse with AI now in the mix. s/worse/better Soon the creators and artists will be able to make full films without studio capital in the mix. This should start happening by the end of the year. The studio system exists because film and motion media is hard to make. It requires a lot of people, a lot of logistics, and a lot of capital. That's not going to be true for much longer. Soon the webcomic / fanfiction creator will be able to build their own anime shows and audiences.
- _sys49152 3y ago
  thus the creation of a ai anime market curation to sort the wheat from the chaff, marketing and merchandising and all that.
- livueta 3y ago
  Agree. There's an example in democratization of music production tech: the market has become broader and deeper in direct proportion to the declining relevance of expensive hardware. In the context of Japanese culture, consider how many production/songwriting/instrumentalist/vocalist careers were launched by Vocaloid. The way it panned out has been the complete opposite of the death of the "real" vocalist industry; just look at Reol's career arc as one example of this dynamic.
  - redwall_hp 3y ago
    Vocaloid is amazing for that. It's the final piece of the puzzle democratizing music creation. It's easily my favorite music scene for how fan-driven and collaborative it is. A few other major careers launched from that scene that come to mind: Kenshi Yonezu started as the vocaloid producer Hachi, and went on to have numerous hits, including a few anime openings and recently the end credit songs for The Boy and the Heron and Final Fantasy XVI. Yoasobi had one of the most popular music videos, globally, on YouTube last year and is playing Coachella this year. One half of Yoasobi is the (active) vocaloid producer Ayase. (Hatsune Miku is also on the list for Coachella, as well as a new North America tour...) Ryo/Supercell has been big for awhile, Giga (who used to work with Reol) just did a Pokemon X Hatsune Miku collab and does work for Hololive songs occasionally...
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Gamedev is close to this. I can assure you that indies will not get the better end of the deal here. Companies with money will out-advertise you, will out-produce you, and still hold onto valuable copyright despite the narrative here about signaling the end of copyright. And that's all before discussing how this will affect monetization. Indies already feel soft capped at $20/work and almost hard capped at $30. Will the same consumers pay those prices for what they feel is "lesser art" now? Indie gamedev can barely break even on $10-20 as is.
  - echelon 3y ago
    Gamedev is nothing like media. It's much easier to become a YouTuber or non-game indie creator. Gamedev takes too damned long. You can't experiment and rapidly try new things.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      Is it really that different? Shipping a game takes longer, but it has the potential for explosive growth. Low chance but if we're comparing to a YouTuber the odds are still very (very, very) slightly in the game's favor. Regardless, the comparison point here would be that fan artist would be able to scale to the level of making feature length films. A AAA game and a Feature length animation (or perhaps a "season" of an animated series) aren't that far apart in scope. They both require a cross discipline of art, sound, and text to properly pull off.
z7 3y ago
Will be interesting when stuff like this gets animated: https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/165cmc2/sdxl_anime/ https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/165cmc2/sd... https://old.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/17zmx1n/unreleased_1980s_anime_movies_which_one_would_you/ https://old.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/17zmx1n/unreleased_1...
- huytersd 3y ago
  My god those are beautiful.
autoexec 3y ago
AI is absolutely going to be the end of many inbetweeners, and on one hand that's a good thing because of how exploited they are, but that's kind of a problem too because you need people to have a way to get started in the industry who can develop their skills, learn how production works, then get promoted to doing key animation or move into other roles that get paid better. If we let AI take all the work from the people at the bottom we'll lose a lot of talent that never had a chance to get off the ground or find a place within the industry
- chii 3y ago
  > If we let AI take all the work from the people at the bottom would you also make the same augument about industrial automation taking away the work of apprentices?
  - autoexec 3y ago
    Not as long as there is still work for apprentices to do. If there was no work left for apprentices, or 99% of all apprenticeships went away entirely due to automation it'd be the same problem. Paid apprenticeships may even be something the animation industry could consider, but even that would cause a massive reduction in the size of the talent pool they draw from today. What we have now is basically a meat grinder/lottery system where most animators burn out or suffer in poverty and obscurity while a small number get selected to advance, but at least people have an opportunity to develop their skills, show off their work, and develop industry connections

> It’s only going to get worse with AI now in the mix. s/worse/better Soon the creators and artists will be able to make full films without studio capital in the mix. This should start happening by the end of the year. The studio system exists because film and motion media is hard to make. It requires a lot of people, a lot of logistics, and a lot of capital. That's not going to be true for much longer. Soon the webcomic / fanfiction creator will be able to build their own anime shows and audiences.

_sys49152 3y ago
thus the creation of a ai anime market curation to sort the wheat from the chaff, marketing and merchandising and all that.
livueta 3y ago
Agree. There's an example in democratization of music production tech: the market has become broader and deeper in direct proportion to the declining relevance of expensive hardware. In the context of Japanese culture, consider how many production/songwriting/instrumentalist/vocalist careers were launched by Vocaloid. The way it panned out has been the complete opposite of the death of the "real" vocalist industry; just look at Reol's career arc as one example of this dynamic.
- redwall_hp 3y ago
  Vocaloid is amazing for that. It's the final piece of the puzzle democratizing music creation. It's easily my favorite music scene for how fan-driven and collaborative it is. A few other major careers launched from that scene that come to mind: Kenshi Yonezu started as the vocaloid producer Hachi, and went on to have numerous hits, including a few anime openings and recently the end credit songs for The Boy and the Heron and Final Fantasy XVI. Yoasobi had one of the most popular music videos, globally, on YouTube last year and is playing Coachella this year. One half of Yoasobi is the (active) vocaloid producer Ayase. (Hatsune Miku is also on the list for Coachella, as well as a new North America tour...) Ryo/Supercell has been big for awhile, Giga (who used to work with Reol) just did a Pokemon X Hatsune Miku collab and does work for Hololive songs occasionally...
johnnyanmac 3y ago
Gamedev is close to this. I can assure you that indies will not get the better end of the deal here. Companies with money will out-advertise you, will out-produce you, and still hold onto valuable copyright despite the narrative here about signaling the end of copyright. And that's all before discussing how this will affect monetization. Indies already feel soft capped at $20/work and almost hard capped at $30. Will the same consumers pay those prices for what they feel is "lesser art" now? Indie gamedev can barely break even on $10-20 as is.
- echelon 3y ago
  Gamedev is nothing like media. It's much easier to become a YouTuber or non-game indie creator. Gamedev takes too damned long. You can't experiment and rapidly try new things.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Is it really that different? Shipping a game takes longer, but it has the potential for explosive growth. Low chance but if we're comparing to a YouTuber the odds are still very (very, very) slightly in the game's favor. Regardless, the comparison point here would be that fan artist would be able to scale to the level of making feature length films. A AAA game and a Feature length animation (or perhaps a "season" of an animated series) aren't that far apart in scope. They both require a cross discipline of art, sound, and text to properly pull off.

z7 3y ago

Will be interesting when stuff like this gets animated: https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/165cmc2/sdxl_anime/ https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/165cmc2/sd... https://old.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/17zmx1n/unreleased_1980s_anime_movies_which_one_would_you/ https://old.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/17zmx1n/unreleased_1...

huytersd 3y ago
My god those are beautiful.

autoexec 3y ago

AI is absolutely going to be the end of many inbetweeners, and on one hand that's a good thing because of how exploited they are, but that's kind of a problem too because you need people to have a way to get started in the industry who can develop their skills, learn how production works, then get promoted to doing key animation or move into other roles that get paid better. If we let AI take all the work from the people at the bottom we'll lose a lot of talent that never had a chance to get off the ground or find a place within the industry

chii 3y ago
> If we let AI take all the work from the people at the bottom would you also make the same augument about industrial automation taking away the work of apprentices?
- autoexec 3y ago
  Not as long as there is still work for apprentices to do. If there was no work left for apprentices, or 99% of all apprenticeships went away entirely due to automation it'd be the same problem. Paid apprenticeships may even be something the animation industry could consider, but even that would cause a massive reduction in the size of the talent pool they draw from today. What we have now is basically a meat grinder/lottery system where most animators burn out or suffer in poverty and obscurity while a small number get selected to advance, but at least people have an opportunity to develop their skills, show off their work, and develop industry connections