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Why do you want to use cash though? NFC tap to pay or QR code-based mobile payments, which is what everyone in China uses, are so much better. No need to carry

Why do you want to use cash though? NFC tap to pay or QR code-based mobile payments, which is what everyone in China uses, are so much better. No need to carry around a heavy and bloated wallet full of physical coins, no need to touch dirty bank notes that have germs and even drugs on them [1]. As a child, my parents always made me wash my hands with soap whenever I touch money, since you never know where the note has been. It just seems so unsanitary to handle physical cash in a place that deals with serving food to customers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_currency

dustincoates 3y ago
> Why do you want to use cash though? Privacy. I'm not opposed to using my card at restaurants or other stores, but I don't at all want a future where every single transaction is tied to an identifiable account.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  Restaurants will end up (and already do) buy systems that keeps track of Bluetooth and WiFi MACs that walk in the place. Your cell phone has to tell your carrier where it is for calls and data to be routed to your handset. You were picked up on a dozen security cameras dumping their feeds to "the cloud" walking to the restaurant. Your license plate was caught on another dozen cameras driving to the restaurant. You were already caught up in the Panopticon. Refusing to use a credit card at the restaurant is a completely empty gesture and provided you no extra privacy. I'm not saying give up on privacy or anything but pick your battles.
  - sschueller 3y ago
    That is not the case in Switzerland which has privacy laws. Private cameras for example are not allowed to film public areas. Cameras on private property need to state where the data is stored, how long etc.
    - rsanek 3y ago
      why couldn't the same privacy laws apply to digital transactions?
      - SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
        Because we've already seen thag they don't. It doesnt have to be logical, it's just the way things have worked out, and there doesn't seem to be any will to change that.
sschueller 3y ago
The issue I have is that there are middlemen when using non cash payment systems. Until the central bank provides an anonymous digital payment system there is no alternative to cash. I don't want my purchase habits ending up in a database located who knows where and as a merchant I don't want to pay x percent to middle men handling the transaction. I also don't want foreign companies deciding what I am allowed to purchase or sell. As we have seen many times visa/mastercard will prevent you from selling and/or buying items legal in my country. The central banks job is to provide a currency for payment and I want them to keep providing this service.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Switzerland has pretty low fee debit cards (Maestro?), which I used extensively during my time there, as a foreigner I didn’t qualify for a credit card with BCV, so no visa/mastercard, but I really didn’t need it. Back in my he states, I avoid any business that takes only cash, because I’m not carrying anything but my phone and a backup credit card in case tap to pay isn’t accepted. I also think businesses should be allowed not to accept cash given that those that do are targets for armed robbery these days (a problem I expect Switzerland not to share).
SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
This is the trajectory "they" want the discussion on. Eventually people start asking you why you would ever want to use cash, then that bewilderment turns to suspicion, using cash becomes something that drug dealers, homeless people, and thieves do. Until trying to use cash becomes grounds for infornal interogation and the last few holdouts become exhausted, and then eventually they can get rid of it altogether, since only bad people use cash anymore.
southernplaces7 3y ago
Becuase maybe, just maybe, not all of us fetishize "convenience" at the expense of all else in this economic world, and want to be able to buy things without having our transactions parastically logged, stored, traced and later used for all sorts of bullshit commercial/government survey tracking purposes. If you like the budding Chinese dystopia and all its garbage just because you can't stand to get your hands "dirty" with a bit of paper (as if the million other things you touch per day were much cleaner) that's your business, but hopefully you can at least see the notion of someone wanting a modicum of very basic privacy.

dustincoates 3y ago

> Why do you want to use cash though? Privacy. I'm not opposed to using my card at restaurants or other stores, but I don't at all want a future where every single transaction is tied to an identifiable account.

giantrobot 3y ago
Restaurants will end up (and already do) buy systems that keeps track of Bluetooth and WiFi MACs that walk in the place. Your cell phone has to tell your carrier where it is for calls and data to be routed to your handset. You were picked up on a dozen security cameras dumping their feeds to "the cloud" walking to the restaurant. Your license plate was caught on another dozen cameras driving to the restaurant. You were already caught up in the Panopticon. Refusing to use a credit card at the restaurant is a completely empty gesture and provided you no extra privacy. I'm not saying give up on privacy or anything but pick your battles.
- sschueller 3y ago
  That is not the case in Switzerland which has privacy laws. Private cameras for example are not allowed to film public areas. Cameras on private property need to state where the data is stored, how long etc.
  - rsanek 3y ago
    why couldn't the same privacy laws apply to digital transactions?
    - SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
      Because we've already seen thag they don't. It doesnt have to be logical, it's just the way things have worked out, and there doesn't seem to be any will to change that.

sschueller 3y ago

The issue I have is that there are middlemen when using non cash payment systems. Until the central bank provides an anonymous digital payment system there is no alternative to cash. I don't want my purchase habits ending up in a database located who knows where and as a merchant I don't want to pay x percent to middle men handling the transaction. I also don't want foreign companies deciding what I am allowed to purchase or sell. As we have seen many times visa/mastercard will prevent you from selling and/or buying items legal in my country. The central banks job is to provide a currency for payment and I want them to keep providing this service.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Switzerland has pretty low fee debit cards (Maestro?), which I used extensively during my time there, as a foreigner I didn’t qualify for a credit card with BCV, so no visa/mastercard, but I really didn’t need it. Back in my he states, I avoid any business that takes only cash, because I’m not carrying anything but my phone and a backup credit card in case tap to pay isn’t accepted. I also think businesses should be allowed not to accept cash given that those that do are targets for armed robbery these days (a problem I expect Switzerland not to share).

SuperNinKenDo 3y ago

This is the trajectory "they" want the discussion on. Eventually people start asking you why you would ever want to use cash, then that bewilderment turns to suspicion, using cash becomes something that drug dealers, homeless people, and thieves do. Until trying to use cash becomes grounds for infornal interogation and the last few holdouts become exhausted, and then eventually they can get rid of it altogether, since only bad people use cash anymore.

southernplaces7 3y ago

Becuase maybe, just maybe, not all of us fetishize "convenience" at the expense of all else in this economic world, and want to be able to buy things without having our transactions parastically logged, stored, traced and later used for all sorts of bullshit commercial/government survey tracking purposes. If you like the budding Chinese dystopia and all its garbage just because you can't stand to get your hands "dirty" with a bit of paper (as if the million other things you touch per day were much cleaner) that's your business, but hopefully you can at least see the notion of someone wanting a modicum of very basic privacy.