9 ms·

I understand the obsession with being on Amazon, but can we please normalize selling elsewhere? The internet is a vast expanse. Why do we think Amazon is the en

by andirk 3y ago

I understand the obsession with being on Amazon, but can we please normalize selling elsewhere? The internet is a vast expanse. Why do we think Amazon is the end all be all? I do not understand this.

mschuster91 3y ago
For consumers, it's easy: Amazon offers a consistent effortless experience. They already have all your payment and shipping data, so no need to create accounts and passwords at some random site with unknown security standards, you know what to expect in terms of shipping vs whatever that random shop is using, no need to worry if the shop will be around in a year or two to honor warranties, no worry about bullshit surrounding returns, warranty claims or refunds.
- ufocia 3y ago
  How does Amazon handle warranties, especially in a year or two? Pray tell.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Amazon is a multibillion dollar company that has a consistent track record of prioritizing customer satisfaction ever since its inception, as does PayPal - admittedly though at the expense of merchants, where we've seen more than enough horror stories on HN about these two companies. Besides: The chances of either of them going belly-up are faaaaar lower than for Joe Random's webshop or, heaven forbid, physical store.
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      > Amazon is a multibillion dollar company that has a consistent track record of prioritizing customer satisfaction ever since its inception A massive issue missing from this statement are the problems around fakes which has grown and is unaddressed by Amazon. Not such an issue with books though.
  - sdoering 3y ago
    My experience with warranty at Amazon was nothing but great every single time. Okay, I am from Germany with quite strong consumer protection. But still. Shopping at Amazon is so damn riskless, why would I buy at a small shop I don't know anything about? I got burned, family got burned - I just became very, very selective with buying elsewhere. The risk is too damn high.
    - farbklang 3y ago
      I lost 450$ on amazon.com for a product that never arrived. Apparently I complained too late and they 'have no shipping info' - might do an ask HN about it and try my best at a writeup.
  - imgabe 3y ago
    Amazon is the store. The manufacturer handles warranties. If your Samsung TV breaks you don’t complain to Wal-Mart, you complain to Samsung.
    - tomrod 3y ago
      Walmart has return merchandising agreements with suppliers.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > If your Samsung TV breaks you don’t complain to Wal-Mart, you complain to Samsung. WTF, here in Germany (or rather Europe as a whole) it is the other way around for the mandatory 2 years - if something happens, you return the item where you bought it and the seller is completely responsible for dealing with everything, and on the hook for delivering you a working item. Only after these two years expire and you have an "extended warranty" in place you have to deal with the manufacturer.
      - Symbiote 3y ago
        Britain had and still has compatible laws, so I can link to a good summary in English for Americans etc: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-...
  - Fnoord 3y ago
    In my experience: first 2 or 3 months you can send it back np. After 2 years they say your warranty is forfeit. Which isn't true if you can reasonably expect the product to last longer (if it is an expensive one). In my case the battery was damaged due to bogus firmware update and they refused to deal with it, citing warranty with seller is exhausted (untrue). They said I should go to the manufacturer instead. I got "lucky" there: they couldn't repair it and replacement would take 3 months so they proposed sending me a newer revision for an extra price of a little bit over 100 EUR. Result is I will actively buy the product elsewhere if it is an expensive one.
    - andirk 3y ago
      That is so genius: Completely handle all immediate issues which probably involve a lot of idiot user error and no issue on the hardware, and then completely drop fools after 30 days! You only have to deal with the issues that aren't actually issues!
- teeray 3y ago
  The shipping is huge. I’m so much more inclined to purchase something that’s FBA rather than wait for some seller to see the notification that a sale was made, drive back from the lake house because it’s the weekend, pack up the item on Monday sometime, then finally drive it to the post office on Tuesday.
dageshi 3y ago
All the customers are there and the company has perhaps spent more time than any other figuring out how to sell books to people. They're better at it than everyone else.
- Ma8ee 3y ago
  Not all the customers. I actively avoid Amazon since quite a few years back. There are literally dozens of us!
  - reaperducer 3y ago
    I was up early one day getting coffee, and saw that one of the book stores in my neighborhood had a line of about 30 people of all ages outside waiting for it to open. I figured it was an event, and had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too. When the doors opened, they all scattered to different parts of the store. So, no author signing or music release. Just people who like books.
    - sva_ 3y ago
      > had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too Are you British by any chance?
      - B1FF_PSUVM 3y ago
        Well, at least he didn't ask anyone what was the event, which is quite proper since they had not been introduced.
    - lacrimacida 3y ago
      Im glad you had a great experience in the bookstore. Unfortunately many bookstores had to close down because of giants like Amazon. Some will stay open but much fewer than before as it becomes a niche rather than a widespread phenomena. I fondly remember spending lots of time in bookstores in the 2000s, it was my favorite pasttime. The experience of browsing books in a bookstore cannot be and will never be produced by the likes of Amazon.
lwhi 3y ago
I don't think the solution is quite as simple as choosing to normalise selling elsewhere.
imgabe 3y ago
You would have to normalize buying elsewhere for it to make any difference.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  When sellers invest time and effort into making it comfortable to buy, there is no problem at all getting customers to pay on your own website, outside of Amazon or other platforms like Booking.com or what have you. However, most sellers have a hostile attitude towards their own customers, whether the seller is a business or individual. They won't make a decent webpage, they won't make an acceptable and smooth buying experience, and they won't match price or give a better price than the platforms. So, naturally customers will go to who they trust.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Exactly--as a customer, I would love to buy elsewhere! Amazon is such a shitty company and I trust their listings so little, that they are the store of last resort for me. It would be super awesome if when I wanted a product, I could just... go the the manufacturer's web site and buy it. And there should be no mark-up because there is no middle-men. Instead of that, one of these usually happens: 1. The manufacturer doesn't sell its own products! This is usually the case. Often they will helpfully list "dealers" where you can go find it (which all charge more than Amazon). 2. The manufacturer sells the product but their purchase and checkout experience is brutal (and/or it doesn't accept my desired form of payment) and I drop out of the funnel in frustration. 3. The manufacturer sells the product but it is inexplicably 25-50% more than Amazon and 50%-100% more than used on eBay. They might say they dislike Amazon but they seem to be doing everything they can to push their customers to them.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Aeolun 3y ago
If there was another store that had all books amazon had, with a Kindle like experience on all possible platforms and e-readers, I might consider that. The only other store that I know of is Rakuten and that’s by far a worse experience.
Hnrobert42 3y ago
For books, I always go to bookshop.org first. They pass some profit along to a local bookstore of your choice.
andy99 3y ago
I don't use amazon (although I cheat a bit because my wife sometimes does). But for books we use indigo.ca (in Canada) which has the same selection and is importantly not Amazon. Is there another national US online bookseller? For other stuff, I just go to the hardware store. The only real amazon thing I depend on is a kind of micro-fibre wipes I use for my glasses. It's actually mostly happened organically since amazon got so bad, although the last few times I used it I abandoned my cart trying to navigate the dark pattern of paying without buying prime or getting tricked into shipping fees.
- wojciii 3y ago
  I'm doing something similar. Amazon is Russian propaganda stupid these days and I don't hate myself enough to use it much.
  - tomrod 3y ago
    ?
    - WolfeReader 3y ago
      Cut out the words "Russian propaganda" and the post you're replying to makes perfect sense.
      - rolph 3y ago
        i think its an attempt at ad hoc adjectivism. perjorative yes, maybe vaguely humourous. Russian propaganda, isnt exactly the most thought out attempt toward manipulating people. it attempts to muddy the waters, and make everything look like a ridiculous choice.
        wojciii 3y ago
        Russian propaganda is currently the most stupid thing that I know of. I feel more and more stupid each time I read something on X written by Russians (official Kremlin stuff).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wut42 3y ago
Is there any good alternatives to Amazon print-on-demand ?

by andirk 3y ago

I understand the obsession with being on Amazon, but can we please normalize selling elsewhere? The internet is a vast expanse. Why do we think Amazon is the end all be all? I do not understand this.

mschuster91 3y ago

For consumers, it's easy: Amazon offers a consistent effortless experience. They already have all your payment and shipping data, so no need to create accounts and passwords at some random site with unknown security standards, you know what to expect in terms of shipping vs whatever that random shop is using, no need to worry if the shop will be around in a year or two to honor warranties, no worry about bullshit surrounding returns, warranty claims or refunds.

ufocia 3y ago
How does Amazon handle warranties, especially in a year or two? Pray tell.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Amazon is a multibillion dollar company that has a consistent track record of prioritizing customer satisfaction ever since its inception, as does PayPal - admittedly though at the expense of merchants, where we've seen more than enough horror stories on HN about these two companies. Besides: The chances of either of them going belly-up are faaaaar lower than for Joe Random's webshop or, heaven forbid, physical store.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    > Amazon is a multibillion dollar company that has a consistent track record of prioritizing customer satisfaction ever since its inception A massive issue missing from this statement are the problems around fakes which has grown and is unaddressed by Amazon. Not such an issue with books though.
- sdoering 3y ago
  My experience with warranty at Amazon was nothing but great every single time. Okay, I am from Germany with quite strong consumer protection. But still. Shopping at Amazon is so damn riskless, why would I buy at a small shop I don't know anything about? I got burned, family got burned - I just became very, very selective with buying elsewhere. The risk is too damn high.
  - farbklang 3y ago
    I lost 450$ on amazon.com for a product that never arrived. Apparently I complained too late and they 'have no shipping info' - might do an ask HN about it and try my best at a writeup.
- imgabe 3y ago
  Amazon is the store. The manufacturer handles warranties. If your Samsung TV breaks you don’t complain to Wal-Mart, you complain to Samsung.
  - tomrod 3y ago
    Walmart has return merchandising agreements with suppliers.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > If your Samsung TV breaks you don’t complain to Wal-Mart, you complain to Samsung. WTF, here in Germany (or rather Europe as a whole) it is the other way around for the mandatory 2 years - if something happens, you return the item where you bought it and the seller is completely responsible for dealing with everything, and on the hook for delivering you a working item. Only after these two years expire and you have an "extended warranty" in place you have to deal with the manufacturer.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      Britain had and still has compatible laws, so I can link to a good summary in English for Americans etc: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-...
- Fnoord 3y ago
  In my experience: first 2 or 3 months you can send it back np. After 2 years they say your warranty is forfeit. Which isn't true if you can reasonably expect the product to last longer (if it is an expensive one). In my case the battery was damaged due to bogus firmware update and they refused to deal with it, citing warranty with seller is exhausted (untrue). They said I should go to the manufacturer instead. I got "lucky" there: they couldn't repair it and replacement would take 3 months so they proposed sending me a newer revision for an extra price of a little bit over 100 EUR. Result is I will actively buy the product elsewhere if it is an expensive one.
  - andirk 3y ago
    That is so genius: Completely handle all immediate issues which probably involve a lot of idiot user error and no issue on the hardware, and then completely drop fools after 30 days! You only have to deal with the issues that aren't actually issues!
teeray 3y ago
The shipping is huge. I’m so much more inclined to purchase something that’s FBA rather than wait for some seller to see the notification that a sale was made, drive back from the lake house because it’s the weekend, pack up the item on Monday sometime, then finally drive it to the post office on Tuesday.

dageshi 3y ago

All the customers are there and the company has perhaps spent more time than any other figuring out how to sell books to people. They're better at it than everyone else.

Ma8ee 3y ago
Not all the customers. I actively avoid Amazon since quite a few years back. There are literally dozens of us!
- reaperducer 3y ago
  I was up early one day getting coffee, and saw that one of the book stores in my neighborhood had a line of about 30 people of all ages outside waiting for it to open. I figured it was an event, and had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too. When the doors opened, they all scattered to different parts of the store. So, no author signing or music release. Just people who like books.
  - sva_ 3y ago
    > had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too Are you British by any chance?
    - B1FF_PSUVM 3y ago
      Well, at least he didn't ask anyone what was the event, which is quite proper since they had not been introduced.
  - lacrimacida 3y ago
    Im glad you had a great experience in the bookstore. Unfortunately many bookstores had to close down because of giants like Amazon. Some will stay open but much fewer than before as it becomes a niche rather than a widespread phenomena. I fondly remember spending lots of time in bookstores in the 2000s, it was my favorite pasttime. The experience of browsing books in a bookstore cannot be and will never be produced by the likes of Amazon.

lwhi 3y ago

I don't think the solution is quite as simple as choosing to normalise selling elsewhere.

imgabe 3y ago

You would have to normalize buying elsewhere for it to make any difference.

carlosjobim 3y ago
When sellers invest time and effort into making it comfortable to buy, there is no problem at all getting customers to pay on your own website, outside of Amazon or other platforms like Booking.com or what have you. However, most sellers have a hostile attitude towards their own customers, whether the seller is a business or individual. They won't make a decent webpage, they won't make an acceptable and smooth buying experience, and they won't match price or give a better price than the platforms. So, naturally customers will go to who they trust.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Exactly--as a customer, I would love to buy elsewhere! Amazon is such a shitty company and I trust their listings so little, that they are the store of last resort for me. It would be super awesome if when I wanted a product, I could just... go the the manufacturer's web site and buy it. And there should be no mark-up because there is no middle-men. Instead of that, one of these usually happens: 1. The manufacturer doesn't sell its own products! This is usually the case. Often they will helpfully list "dealers" where you can go find it (which all charge more than Amazon). 2. The manufacturer sells the product but their purchase and checkout experience is brutal (and/or it doesn't accept my desired form of payment) and I drop out of the funnel in frustration. 3. The manufacturer sells the product but it is inexplicably 25-50% more than Amazon and 50%-100% more than used on eBay. They might say they dislike Amazon but they seem to be doing everything they can to push their customers to them.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Aeolun 3y ago

If there was another store that had all books amazon had, with a Kindle like experience on all possible platforms and e-readers, I might consider that. The only other store that I know of is Rakuten and that’s by far a worse experience.

Hnrobert42 3y ago

For books, I always go to bookshop.org first. They pass some profit along to a local bookstore of your choice.

andy99 3y ago

I don't use amazon (although I cheat a bit because my wife sometimes does). But for books we use indigo.ca (in Canada) which has the same selection and is importantly not Amazon. Is there another national US online bookseller? For other stuff, I just go to the hardware store. The only real amazon thing I depend on is a kind of micro-fibre wipes I use for my glasses. It's actually mostly happened organically since amazon got so bad, although the last few times I used it I abandoned my cart trying to navigate the dark pattern of paying without buying prime or getting tricked into shipping fees.

wojciii 3y ago
I'm doing something similar. Amazon is Russian propaganda stupid these days and I don't hate myself enough to use it much.
- tomrod 3y ago
  ?
  - WolfeReader 3y ago
    Cut out the words "Russian propaganda" and the post you're replying to makes perfect sense.
    - rolph 3y ago
      i think its an attempt at ad hoc adjectivism. perjorative yes, maybe vaguely humourous. Russian propaganda, isnt exactly the most thought out attempt toward manipulating people. it attempts to muddy the waters, and make everything look like a ridiculous choice.
      - wojciii 3y ago
        Russian propaganda is currently the most stupid thing that I know of. I feel more and more stupid each time I read something on X written by Russians (official Kremlin stuff).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

wut42 3y ago

Is there any good alternatives to Amazon print-on-demand ?