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It is fundamentally strange to look at a society which stops having children to the extent that it will no longer exist within 2-4 generations as having a probl

by lumost 3y ago

It is fundamentally strange to look at a society which stops having children to the extent that it will no longer exist within 2-4 generations as having a problem of "not enough workers." Perhaps part of the problem is that we see individuals only as workers?

jazzyjackson 3y ago
The focus on workers is a result of the fundamental problem of depopulation being economic. One family growing old without replacing themselves with a gaggle of grandchildren is one thing, but an entire country becoming predominantly retired is an economic disaster for those retirees. It's about maintaining economic growth so that old people can live off their investments, which requires the post-productive folk to be outnumbered by still-productive folk.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  You know, I spent some time in college learning economics, and lots of time after that listening to podcasts about economics ("Planet Money" has long been great), but like almost every other belief I had when I was younger, I seem to have lost this one as well. Supposedly we've had decades of productivity growth, so you'd think that it would be possible for a smaller cohort of workers to keep everything going, and yet it is apparently a creeping disaster that there may not be enough of them to maintain modern civilization in the not-so-distant future. Like many aspects of modern life, it just isn't really adding up to me.
- pydry 3y ago
  It's funny how AI/automation discussions are dominated by a jobpocalypse but when the topic is demographics or (god forbid) putting down the retirement age suddenly it's a lack of workerpocalypse and "quick, find some immigrants!" There is a glaring contradiction there that I think has more than a little to do with the way capital dictates the shape of modern political discourse. I also think we are being subtly prepared not for a crisis of demography or a crisis of automation but instead a crisis of oligarchy.
999900000999 3y ago
The society will still exist, it'll just be different. It's a great thing less people are being pressured into starting families or having unplanned families.
deleted 3y ago
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by lumost 3y ago

jazzyjackson 3y ago

The focus on workers is a result of the fundamental problem of depopulation being economic. One family growing old without replacing themselves with a gaggle of grandchildren is one thing, but an entire country becoming predominantly retired is an economic disaster for those retirees. It's about maintaining economic growth so that old people can live off their investments, which requires the post-productive folk to be outnumbered by still-productive folk.

hotpotamus 3y ago
You know, I spent some time in college learning economics, and lots of time after that listening to podcasts about economics ("Planet Money" has long been great), but like almost every other belief I had when I was younger, I seem to have lost this one as well. Supposedly we've had decades of productivity growth, so you'd think that it would be possible for a smaller cohort of workers to keep everything going, and yet it is apparently a creeping disaster that there may not be enough of them to maintain modern civilization in the not-so-distant future. Like many aspects of modern life, it just isn't really adding up to me.
pydry 3y ago
It's funny how AI/automation discussions are dominated by a jobpocalypse but when the topic is demographics or (god forbid) putting down the retirement age suddenly it's a lack of workerpocalypse and "quick, find some immigrants!" There is a glaring contradiction there that I think has more than a little to do with the way capital dictates the shape of modern political discourse. I also think we are being subtly prepared not for a crisis of demography or a crisis of automation but instead a crisis of oligarchy.

999900000999 3y ago

The society will still exist, it'll just be different. It's a great thing less people are being pressured into starting families or having unplanned families.

deleted 3y ago

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