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These responses always confuse me. Musk doesn't design or build the rockets. It's fascinating to see SpaceX succeed while Twitter fails, because the former has

These responses always confuse me. Musk doesn't design or build the rockets. It's fascinating to see SpaceX succeed while Twitter fails, because the former has management in place to keep things on the rails, while the latter has Musk unchecked. He does appear to be good at raising money, through a mixture of government subsidies and making things up to pump valuations. It's just that instead of Tesla's "self driving cars are coming next year" it's about missions to Mars. (You could argue that this is similar Steve Jobs' reality distortion field, except... Apple actually delivered.) But even if Musk had a hand in things, professional success does validate unwell behavior. Howard Hughes was a successful aircraft engineer despite, but clearly suffered from severe mental illness. The difference is that Hughs lived out his decline in private, while Musk is live-tweeting his unraveling.

slowhadoken 3y ago
You're illustrating my point. Your formula is: if SpaceX does well then Elon Musk has nothing to do with it. If Twitter/X fails it's Elon Musk's fault. BUT if something unexpected happens with a SpaceX launch all of a sudden it's Elon Musk's fault again. This is the game. Then people pretend his behavior is "unwell" or "unhinged". Then I ask them "how is he unhinged" and I get a long confusing rant about nonsense. Personally I prefer progress over a popularity. Nerds are just bullying nerds at this point.
- imtringued 3y ago
  So the only reason why people shouldn't get away with bad public behaviour is that they aren't a billionaire? I think you are the bully here.
  - slowhadoken 3y ago
    Maybe sit this one out, bud.
- sandofsky 3y ago
  I just explained the difference between the two companies. At Twitter he has the clearance to do whatever he wants. At SpaceX, there are constraints. I never mentioned a failed SpaceX launch. Imagine describing Musk’s behavior to a stranger while leaving out a name: Impulsively buying a beleaguered business, then destroying its only revenue through further impulsivity. Would a well person in his situation give the recent, “Go Fuck Yourself” speech to advertisers?
  - slowhadoken 3y ago
    > I never mentioned a failed SpaceX. Your believes about his “behavior” will make you if it happens. That will be the rationalization. An ad hominem attack. Musk’s can tell advertisers to go fuck themselves. Lots of other companies do. Valve is probably the most successful example.
    - sandofsky 3y ago
      You seem to want to argue with someone else who is not me. Again, I never mentioned failed SpaceX launches, and now you’re telling me what I will say next. I don’t see how Valve is analogous. Perhaps if they were in a financial nosedive, and turned around and told software publishers to go fuck themselves?
      - slowhadoken 3y ago
        I agree, I’m talking to the wrong person.
panick21_ 3y ago
> Musk doesn't design or build the rockets. It's fascinating to see SpaceX succeed while Twitter fails, because the former has management in place to keep things on the rails, while the latter has Musk unchecked. This is just factually wrong. Musk has been leading and controlling SpaceX for literally 20 years now. He has always been in full control and made pretty much all the most important decisions. He hired and recruited all of the leadership team. And he did work on the design and and helped build the rocket too. Since when is leading a team not important? Those are simple facts. Go read about about Falcon 1. Its Twitter where Musk only recently started on, and Twitter had lots of issues before Musk took over, and Twitter where he has put a CEO in place. So the fact is, Musk is far more deeply involved in SpaceX compared to Twitter. The same for Tesla, Musk has just as much power there and its also very successful. The whole 'its all fund raising and government' doesn't actually hold up either. > Apple actually delivered Being the most successful space company in history. Having the most rocket launches, the biggest rocket, the most reliable engine, the most advanced engine, the most sats and the most launched human isn't good enough for you? Hasn't even deliver on the most complex project in human history. What a loser. Granted its not exactly as complex as having a computer with a nice user-interface ... > while Musk is live-tweeting his unraveling. Musk is fine, he lives on, he does the same things he has been doing for 20+ years, SpaceX and Tesla continue to do fine and he is continuing to lead them. Twitter, exists and works fine. If that is 'unraveling' then I don't think you know what that words means. All that has actually happened because of this 'unraveling' is that Twitter lost some of its value. Not ideal but also not really a big deal either. Essentially calling somebody mentally ill because you don't like how they handle a company is really is more a reflection on you not Musk.
- sandofsky 3y ago
  > This is just factually wrong. Factually wrong? Are you saying that Musk designs and builds the rockets? > Musk has been leading and controlling SpaceX for literally 20 years now. I think his behavior has very clearly changed over the past 20 years. There's a theory the pandemic did something to him, but I suspect it predates that. > Being the most successful space company in history. Having the most rocket launches, the biggest rocket, the most reliable engine, the most advanced engine, the most sats and the most launched human isn't good enough for you? Hasn't even deliver on the most complex project in human history. What a loser. I didn't call him a loser, and I'm not sure why you're equating criticism with an ad-hominem attack. I genuinely think he is grappling with mental health issues, though it doesn't excuse his behavior. Anyway, I don't think it's relevant to dig into SpaceX's engineering any more than Tesla's battery tech. If I hire a contractor to renovate my bathroom, and the results are good, is it because I had a hand in it? For all you know, I could have changed my mind about the tiles halfway through and demanded they start over, making the project harder than it needed to be. I could have hurled abuse at the laborer and the stiffed him for the bill. > Musk is fine, he lives on, he does the same things he has been doing for 20+ years, SpaceX and Tesla continue to do fine and he is continuing to lead them. Howard Hughes' companies did fine through his mental decline and death. > Twitter, exists and works fine. If that is 'unraveling' then I don't think you know what that words means. Twitter has lost its only major source of revenue, most of the people I followed there have moved on, and it's facing so many lawsuits that I've lost count. That doesn't seem fine. The important detail is that all of this was self inflicted. The company wasn't doing great, but it was chugging along. He grabbed the wheel and drove it straight into a wall. > Essentially calling somebody mentally ill because you don't like how they handle a company is really is more a reflection on you not Musk. I think that when someone acts mentally ill, they tend to be mentally ill. The only counterargument seems to boil down to, "But he has a lot of money."

slowhadoken 3y ago

You're illustrating my point. Your formula is: if SpaceX does well then Elon Musk has nothing to do with it. If Twitter/X fails it's Elon Musk's fault. BUT if something unexpected happens with a SpaceX launch all of a sudden it's Elon Musk's fault again. This is the game. Then people pretend his behavior is "unwell" or "unhinged". Then I ask them "how is he unhinged" and I get a long confusing rant about nonsense. Personally I prefer progress over a popularity. Nerds are just bullying nerds at this point.

imtringued 3y ago
So the only reason why people shouldn't get away with bad public behaviour is that they aren't a billionaire? I think you are the bully here.
- slowhadoken 3y ago
  Maybe sit this one out, bud.
sandofsky 3y ago
I just explained the difference between the two companies. At Twitter he has the clearance to do whatever he wants. At SpaceX, there are constraints. I never mentioned a failed SpaceX launch. Imagine describing Musk’s behavior to a stranger while leaving out a name: Impulsively buying a beleaguered business, then destroying its only revenue through further impulsivity. Would a well person in his situation give the recent, “Go Fuck Yourself” speech to advertisers?
- slowhadoken 3y ago
  > I never mentioned a failed SpaceX. Your believes about his “behavior” will make you if it happens. That will be the rationalization. An ad hominem attack. Musk’s can tell advertisers to go fuck themselves. Lots of other companies do. Valve is probably the most successful example.
  - sandofsky 3y ago
    You seem to want to argue with someone else who is not me. Again, I never mentioned failed SpaceX launches, and now you’re telling me what I will say next. I don’t see how Valve is analogous. Perhaps if they were in a financial nosedive, and turned around and told software publishers to go fuck themselves?
    - slowhadoken 3y ago
      I agree, I’m talking to the wrong person.

panick21_ 3y ago

> Musk doesn't design or build the rockets. It's fascinating to see SpaceX succeed while Twitter fails, because the former has management in place to keep things on the rails, while the latter has Musk unchecked. This is just factually wrong. Musk has been leading and controlling SpaceX for literally 20 years now. He has always been in full control and made pretty much all the most important decisions. He hired and recruited all of the leadership team. And he did work on the design and and helped build the rocket too. Since when is leading a team not important? Those are simple facts. Go read about about Falcon 1. Its Twitter where Musk only recently started on, and Twitter had lots of issues before Musk took over, and Twitter where he has put a CEO in place. So the fact is, Musk is far more deeply involved in SpaceX compared to Twitter. The same for Tesla, Musk has just as much power there and its also very successful. The whole 'its all fund raising and government' doesn't actually hold up either. > Apple actually delivered Being the most successful space company in history. Having the most rocket launches, the biggest rocket, the most reliable engine, the most advanced engine, the most sats and the most launched human isn't good enough for you? Hasn't even deliver on the most complex project in human history. What a loser. Granted its not exactly as complex as having a computer with a nice user-interface ... > while Musk is live-tweeting his unraveling. Musk is fine, he lives on, he does the same things he has been doing for 20+ years, SpaceX and Tesla continue to do fine and he is continuing to lead them. Twitter, exists and works fine. If that is 'unraveling' then I don't think you know what that words means. All that has actually happened because of this 'unraveling' is that Twitter lost some of its value. Not ideal but also not really a big deal either. Essentially calling somebody mentally ill because you don't like how they handle a company is really is more a reflection on you not Musk.

sandofsky 3y ago
> This is just factually wrong. Factually wrong? Are you saying that Musk designs and builds the rockets? > Musk has been leading and controlling SpaceX for literally 20 years now. I think his behavior has very clearly changed over the past 20 years. There's a theory the pandemic did something to him, but I suspect it predates that. > Being the most successful space company in history. Having the most rocket launches, the biggest rocket, the most reliable engine, the most advanced engine, the most sats and the most launched human isn't good enough for you? Hasn't even deliver on the most complex project in human history. What a loser. I didn't call him a loser, and I'm not sure why you're equating criticism with an ad-hominem attack. I genuinely think he is grappling with mental health issues, though it doesn't excuse his behavior. Anyway, I don't think it's relevant to dig into SpaceX's engineering any more than Tesla's battery tech. If I hire a contractor to renovate my bathroom, and the results are good, is it because I had a hand in it? For all you know, I could have changed my mind about the tiles halfway through and demanded they start over, making the project harder than it needed to be. I could have hurled abuse at the laborer and the stiffed him for the bill. > Musk is fine, he lives on, he does the same things he has been doing for 20+ years, SpaceX and Tesla continue to do fine and he is continuing to lead them. Howard Hughes' companies did fine through his mental decline and death. > Twitter, exists and works fine. If that is 'unraveling' then I don't think you know what that words means. Twitter has lost its only major source of revenue, most of the people I followed there have moved on, and it's facing so many lawsuits that I've lost count. That doesn't seem fine. The important detail is that all of this was self inflicted. The company wasn't doing great, but it was chugging along. He grabbed the wheel and drove it straight into a wall. > Essentially calling somebody mentally ill because you don't like how they handle a company is really is more a reflection on you not Musk. I think that when someone acts mentally ill, they tend to be mentally ill. The only counterargument seems to boil down to, "But he has a lot of money."