5 ms·

Money likely spent on crap. Apple is now a really bloated company that barely innovates, and now with plenty of governments breathing on its neck. Just look a

Money likely spent on crap. Apple is now a really bloated company that barely innovates, and now with plenty of governments breathing on its neck. Just look at how many IPhone models exists nowadays, Steve Jobs would be shocked to see Apple in 2024.

mustacheemperor 3y ago
I don't think he would be shocked to see this comment, though, since it is materially identical to the complaints I remember reading circa 2010 and is as willfully ignorant of the Vision Pro as those complaints were of the iPad, and later the Apple Watch and the AirPods (when 'the FBI will destroy Apple's privacy edge' was the government conflict du jour). I don't mean to come across as standoffish here, it's just, this complaint reads to me like the "HN is becoming reddit" complaints. People have been saying it forever, so, without any new evidence, it just reads like the same old prediction that hasn't come true yet.
- mattmaroon 3y ago
  And if they didn’t invest in r&d the same people would say they’re stodgy dinosaurs cashing in on what they’ve got ABC heading for extinction. Like HN said about Microsoft 15 years ago.
- 0x457 3y ago
  To be fair, AirPods that aren't Max and (maybe) Pro are complete garbage. Any wireless headphones in the same price range and often cheaper is better at every category except integration with Apple ecosystem.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > as willfully ignorant of the Vision Pro as those complaints were of the iPad, and later the Apple Watch and the AirPods These are the evidence of the opposite. Apple's hardware from the 70s and 80s, like the original Macintosh, were something special. NeXTSTEP, the Steve Jobs thing that got rebranded as Mac OS X when Apple bought them, was the first modern OS to be simultaneously good and popular. The iPhone changed what a phone is. The iPad is an iPhone, but bigger. The watch is an iPhone, but smaller. These are not innovations of the same kind. They're the sort of thing you'd expect out of Facebook or Amazon or any other large mature bureaucratic corporation. If the Apple II was the 70s and the Macintosh was the 80s and NeXTSTEP was the 90s and the iPhone was the 2000s, name the thing of this caliber they did in the 2010s.
  - jedberg 3y ago
    > name the thing of this caliber they did in the 2010s. Well, you had to wait for the 2020s, but Vision Pro. It's an entirely new computer, meant to be your primary device. It's similar to how the Mac came out when PCs already existed, but were just different. Just wait 10 years until the market realizes it.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      >Just wait 10 years until the market realizes it. People said that about Google Glass 10 years ago.
      - jedberg 3y ago
        Google glass was ahead of its time. And was creepy with its recording ability and other features it launched with. Also, it was only a display for an attached phone for the most part. It couldn't really do anything. This is a whole computer strapped to your head.
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        Why would you want a computer strapped to your head? Computers generate heat and have weight that you'd rather put in your pocket than have to support with your neck. To make it work you're stuck with a trade off between performance, weight and battery life when none of those is fun to sacrifice in this context.
        hnfong 3y ago
        You could have said the same things to laptops 40 years ago, and smartphones 20 years ago. As long as Moore's law limps along, eventually performance/weight/battery will work out.
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        Moore's law has been dead for a while now and nobody really knows how much more we can get in terms of performance per watt. But even if it continues to improve, you're implying that what they've got right now is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable Or maybe worse than that, because the trade off never really goes away. Desktops and servers are still faster than laptops, but portability is a huge advantage, so sacrificing some performance is worth it to have something with you everywhere you go. But how much performance is it worth sacrificing to avoid having a phone in your pocket? Nowhere near as much as it is to avoid lugging a desktop computer around with you. Or to measure it from the other side, lots of people still have a Macbook even though they also have an iPhone.
staplers 3y ago
I don't think he'd be shocked. More like disappointed. Most innovators and future thinkers understand the entropy of large organizations left to business-types.
mikestew 3y ago
You forgot to mention that the only reason people buy Apple products in the first place is because of marketing. If the sheeple ever wake up, Apple is doomed. Or so I've been hearing for, what, the last decade or more?
- gumby 3y ago
  Decade? Famously: “No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.”
- danaris 3y ago
  People have been saying that about Apple for 40 years now.
- thiago_fm 3y ago
  Even despite how displeased I am with Apple right now, I can still clearly the edge it has in technology, how neatly integrate their software/hardware stack is etc. Marketing is strong on Apple, but they do have great products. They just failed to do anything meaningful since the IPhone. Don't come tell me about Airbuds, iPad and iWatch, they are all really obvious and soulless products. This isn't anywhere the kind of product innovation Jobs used to push.
micromacrofoot 3y ago
Apple is one of the most successful business on the planet, and has been for years. Jobs would be shocked to see how big of a money pool he could swim in.
astrange 3y ago
> Just look at how many IPhone models exists nowadays, Steve Jobs would be shocked to see Apple in 2024. The trick is that there aren't a lot of new iPhone models. Instead they just keep selling the old ones for a while.

mustacheemperor 3y ago

I don't think he would be shocked to see this comment, though, since it is materially identical to the complaints I remember reading circa 2010 and is as willfully ignorant of the Vision Pro as those complaints were of the iPad, and later the Apple Watch and the AirPods (when 'the FBI will destroy Apple's privacy edge' was the government conflict du jour). I don't mean to come across as standoffish here, it's just, this complaint reads to me like the "HN is becoming reddit" complaints. People have been saying it forever, so, without any new evidence, it just reads like the same old prediction that hasn't come true yet.

mattmaroon 3y ago
And if they didn’t invest in r&d the same people would say they’re stodgy dinosaurs cashing in on what they’ve got ABC heading for extinction. Like HN said about Microsoft 15 years ago.
0x457 3y ago
To be fair, AirPods that aren't Max and (maybe) Pro are complete garbage. Any wireless headphones in the same price range and often cheaper is better at every category except integration with Apple ecosystem.
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> as willfully ignorant of the Vision Pro as those complaints were of the iPad, and later the Apple Watch and the AirPods These are the evidence of the opposite. Apple's hardware from the 70s and 80s, like the original Macintosh, were something special. NeXTSTEP, the Steve Jobs thing that got rebranded as Mac OS X when Apple bought them, was the first modern OS to be simultaneously good and popular. The iPhone changed what a phone is. The iPad is an iPhone, but bigger. The watch is an iPhone, but smaller. These are not innovations of the same kind. They're the sort of thing you'd expect out of Facebook or Amazon or any other large mature bureaucratic corporation. If the Apple II was the 70s and the Macintosh was the 80s and NeXTSTEP was the 90s and the iPhone was the 2000s, name the thing of this caliber they did in the 2010s.
- jedberg 3y ago
  > name the thing of this caliber they did in the 2010s. Well, you had to wait for the 2020s, but Vision Pro. It's an entirely new computer, meant to be your primary device. It's similar to how the Mac came out when PCs already existed, but were just different. Just wait 10 years until the market realizes it.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    >Just wait 10 years until the market realizes it. People said that about Google Glass 10 years ago.
    - jedberg 3y ago
      Google glass was ahead of its time. And was creepy with its recording ability and other features it launched with. Also, it was only a display for an attached phone for the most part. It couldn't really do anything. This is a whole computer strapped to your head.
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        Why would you want a computer strapped to your head? Computers generate heat and have weight that you'd rather put in your pocket than have to support with your neck. To make it work you're stuck with a trade off between performance, weight and battery life when none of those is fun to sacrifice in this context.
        hnfong 3y ago
        You could have said the same things to laptops 40 years ago, and smartphones 20 years ago. As long as Moore's law limps along, eventually performance/weight/battery will work out.
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        Moore's law has been dead for a while now and nobody really knows how much more we can get in terms of performance per watt. But even if it continues to improve, you're implying that what they've got right now is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable Or maybe worse than that, because the trade off never really goes away. Desktops and servers are still faster than laptops, but portability is a huge advantage, so sacrificing some performance is worth it to have something with you everywhere you go. But how much performance is it worth sacrificing to avoid having a phone in your pocket? Nowhere near as much as it is to avoid lugging a desktop computer around with you. Or to measure it from the other side, lots of people still have a Macbook even though they also have an iPhone.

staplers 3y ago

I don't think he'd be shocked. More like disappointed. Most innovators and future thinkers understand the entropy of large organizations left to business-types.

mikestew 3y ago

You forgot to mention that the only reason people buy Apple products in the first place is because of marketing. If the sheeple ever wake up, Apple is doomed. Or so I've been hearing for, what, the last decade or more?

gumby 3y ago
Decade? Famously: “No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.”
danaris 3y ago
People have been saying that about Apple for 40 years now.
thiago_fm 3y ago
Even despite how displeased I am with Apple right now, I can still clearly the edge it has in technology, how neatly integrate their software/hardware stack is etc. Marketing is strong on Apple, but they do have great products. They just failed to do anything meaningful since the IPhone. Don't come tell me about Airbuds, iPad and iWatch, they are all really obvious and soulless products. This isn't anywhere the kind of product innovation Jobs used to push.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

Apple is one of the most successful business on the planet, and has been for years. Jobs would be shocked to see how big of a money pool he could swim in.

astrange 3y ago

> Just look at how many IPhone models exists nowadays, Steve Jobs would be shocked to see Apple in 2024. The trick is that there aren't a lot of new iPhone models. Instead they just keep selling the old ones for a while.