7 ms·

Amazon employee in Ontario collapses, dies after fire alarm sent staff into cold

47 points by djkivi 3y ago

ncr100 3y ago
Heart attack, indoors, after waiting outside in -22F for ~20 minutes, and less than 45 minutes after returning inside. Claims of insufficient "warming packs" for employees. Claims management prevented employees from warming in their automobiles. GoFund me https://www.gofundme.com/f/paulo-bezerra https://www.gofundme.com/f/paulo-bezerra $17k so far. 50 year old man, with baby & spouse.
- DANmode 3y ago
  > Claims management prevented employees from warming in their automobiles. 100 years and some stuff hasn't changed a bit.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
    Prevented how? I've had fire alarms go off at the office in a Minnesota winter and half the people outside were in their cars. No way were you going to be able to stop people from doing that when it's below 0F.
    - junon 3y ago
      So they're lying and completely to blame, right?
      - randomdata 3y ago
        Did you reply to the wrong comment by chance? There is nothing that questions the veracity of the claim or anything said about blame, merely a wondering of how the prevention was carried out as he imagines the force would need to be pretty extreme to stop someone based on his experience in cold Minnesota. If you don't know the answer, it's okay. This isn't ChatGPT where when there is no good answer you have to hallucinate something to not break the UX. You don't have to dream up something unrelated to the discussion just to reply. Users here are fine with and expect no response when something cannot be answered.
        junon 3y ago
        ... what?
    - alex_lav 3y ago
      I’m curious why you’re so passionately against believing regular people in favor of a giant megacorp? What’s the logic here?
      - 15457345234 3y ago
        The management at that level are also going to be regular people who probably live in the same community as the people they are managing and have zero incentive to prevent employees from warming themselves in their vehicles. The story simply fails to compute. You're not talking about weird kingly bosses who live on Elysium and think that the poors should eat bugs, you're talking about light-blue collar management. Also the source is dogshit. Not really a fan of Amazon but perfectly capable of recognising a hitpiece.
        randomdata 3y ago
        > have zero incentive to prevent employees from warming themselves in their vehicles. I would think the angry mob of people without vehicles to warm in would provide a pretty good incentive. "Why do they get to stay in their warm cars while we're stuck out in the cold?" can escalate pretty quickly. I don't envy the supervisors. What do you do? You don't want to see your brethren exit the shelter they found, but you also don't want to get lynched by those who couldn't find shelter.
        15457345234 3y ago
        > I would think the angry mob of people without vehicles to warm in would provide a pretty good incentive. You know that humans in stressful situations don't immediately go all lord-of-the-flies, what actually happens is that people help each other. So people would let other people share their cars. I swear to god sometimes it's like nobody here has ever met a person.
        randomdata 3y ago
        Of course. But you do understand that cars can only hold so many people, right? So the people turned in the opposite direction by helping each other brave the cold. The people with cars could have gone all “I got mine”, but once made aware that others were suffering chose to act to the benefit of the group instead. It’s interesting how you managed to write an entire comment about just that, yet don’t seem to understand it.
    - marcusverus 3y ago
      Excuse me, sir, are you calling into question this anonymously sourced allegation? Seriously? It was sourced from the prestigious lfpress.com. The 1400th most-visited site in Canada! Journalists make great sacrifices to bring us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Instead of thinking unhelpful thoughts like "people lie all the time, why should I trust some two-bit reporter from a newspaper that nobody has ever heard of?", why not take off the tin-foil hat and join the rest of us in assuming that all people--especially those anonymous few who are completely shielded from the consequences of lying--are telling the truth at all times. Like, when is the last time that a journalist misled anyone? It's just not in their nature.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
gumby 3y ago
Loathe as I am to be in any way sympathetic to Amazon, I have to ask: what's the right thing that should have happened? It's pretty standard that in a fire you leave the building and assemble in some safe location. The only fire drills I've done have been in school, in clement weather, and we assembled in the parking lot away enough from the buildings that the fire wouldn't affect us, we wouldn't be in the way of firefighters and away from the road. But when it's cold: what provisions should be made to ensure the assembly point is a "safe location"? It's reasonable to assume people will evacuate without jackets or anything. I don't know the answer, but perhaps someone who's been in a fire drill in a cold climate can explain.
- pests 3y ago
  Just like we have requirements for fire extinguishers and fire ladders / suppression systems, there should be requirements on providing protection from the elements in situations like these as well. Outside heaters, emergency blankets and ponchos, chemical warming packs, etc. This is a workplace. We already take precautions against fire and chemicals and whatnot, this isn't asking for much more.
- impossiblefork 3y ago
  What would have happened here in Sweden is that if people weren't dressed for the cold they'd probably get shelter somehow-- maybe go home, enter a restaurant or other building. -30 C is really incredibly cold. You just can't stand around in that without proper clothes. I think the problem is that a lot of Americans are incredibly servile and will obey employers, authorities etc., even when it's harmful or dangerous. I especially remember a case where a woman was in court and was sexually assaulted by a marshal, right there with the judge ignoring it. But what I found very curious was how he was obeyed, and how the judge was obeyed. Here in Sweden, neither judge nor marshal would have been obeyed. I think the servility is probably caused by the experience that employers and authorities can get away with anything, and a fear that they will do worse if challenged or attacked.
  - sleep-grenade 3y ago
    it somehow feels like a lot of middle-managers explain it to themselves that they also just have no choice but to do what they're told from above and boss people around.. .. but imagine if you were that manager that had told people to stand around in the freezing cold and then someone just dropped dead. or the person above them .. well i guess they probably don't think about this kind of stuff at all i'm just having a hard time putting myself in one of those people's shoes
diebeforei485 3y ago
People should have been told to go to their cars to stay warm.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  It's not that they're not told - they're prohibited from doing so for "theft prevention"

47 points by djkivi 3y ago

Heart attack, indoors, after waiting outside in -22F for ~20 minutes, and less than 45 minutes after returning inside. Claims of insufficient "warming packs" for employees. Claims management prevented employees from warming in their automobiles. GoFund me https://www.gofundme.com/f/paulo-bezerra https://www.gofundme.com/f/paulo-bezerra $17k so far. 50 year old man, with baby & spouse.

DANmode 3y ago
> Claims management prevented employees from warming in their automobiles. 100 years and some stuff hasn't changed a bit.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  Prevented how? I've had fire alarms go off at the office in a Minnesota winter and half the people outside were in their cars. No way were you going to be able to stop people from doing that when it's below 0F.
  - junon 3y ago
    So they're lying and completely to blame, right?
    - randomdata 3y ago
      Did you reply to the wrong comment by chance? There is nothing that questions the veracity of the claim or anything said about blame, merely a wondering of how the prevention was carried out as he imagines the force would need to be pretty extreme to stop someone based on his experience in cold Minnesota. If you don't know the answer, it's okay. This isn't ChatGPT where when there is no good answer you have to hallucinate something to not break the UX. You don't have to dream up something unrelated to the discussion just to reply. Users here are fine with and expect no response when something cannot be answered.
      - junon 3y ago
        ... what?
  - alex_lav 3y ago
    I’m curious why you’re so passionately against believing regular people in favor of a giant megacorp? What’s the logic here?
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      The management at that level are also going to be regular people who probably live in the same community as the people they are managing and have zero incentive to prevent employees from warming themselves in their vehicles. The story simply fails to compute. You're not talking about weird kingly bosses who live on Elysium and think that the poors should eat bugs, you're talking about light-blue collar management. Also the source is dogshit. Not really a fan of Amazon but perfectly capable of recognising a hitpiece.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        > have zero incentive to prevent employees from warming themselves in their vehicles. I would think the angry mob of people without vehicles to warm in would provide a pretty good incentive. "Why do they get to stay in their warm cars while we're stuck out in the cold?" can escalate pretty quickly. I don't envy the supervisors. What do you do? You don't want to see your brethren exit the shelter they found, but you also don't want to get lynched by those who couldn't find shelter.
        15457345234 3y ago
        > I would think the angry mob of people without vehicles to warm in would provide a pretty good incentive. You know that humans in stressful situations don't immediately go all lord-of-the-flies, what actually happens is that people help each other. So people would let other people share their cars. I swear to god sometimes it's like nobody here has ever met a person.
        randomdata 3y ago
        Of course. But you do understand that cars can only hold so many people, right? So the people turned in the opposite direction by helping each other brave the cold. The people with cars could have gone all “I got mine”, but once made aware that others were suffering chose to act to the benefit of the group instead. It’s interesting how you managed to write an entire comment about just that, yet don’t seem to understand it.
  - marcusverus 3y ago
    Excuse me, sir, are you calling into question this anonymously sourced allegation? Seriously? It was sourced from the prestigious lfpress.com. The 1400th most-visited site in Canada! Journalists make great sacrifices to bring us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Instead of thinking unhelpful thoughts like "people lie all the time, why should I trust some two-bit reporter from a newspaper that nobody has ever heard of?", why not take off the tin-foil hat and join the rest of us in assuming that all people--especially those anonymous few who are completely shielded from the consequences of lying--are telling the truth at all times. Like, when is the last time that a journalist misled anyone? It's just not in their nature.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

gumby 3y ago

Loathe as I am to be in any way sympathetic to Amazon, I have to ask: what's the right thing that should have happened? It's pretty standard that in a fire you leave the building and assemble in some safe location. The only fire drills I've done have been in school, in clement weather, and we assembled in the parking lot away enough from the buildings that the fire wouldn't affect us, we wouldn't be in the way of firefighters and away from the road. But when it's cold: what provisions should be made to ensure the assembly point is a "safe location"? It's reasonable to assume people will evacuate without jackets or anything. I don't know the answer, but perhaps someone who's been in a fire drill in a cold climate can explain.

pests 3y ago
Just like we have requirements for fire extinguishers and fire ladders / suppression systems, there should be requirements on providing protection from the elements in situations like these as well. Outside heaters, emergency blankets and ponchos, chemical warming packs, etc. This is a workplace. We already take precautions against fire and chemicals and whatnot, this isn't asking for much more.
impossiblefork 3y ago
What would have happened here in Sweden is that if people weren't dressed for the cold they'd probably get shelter somehow-- maybe go home, enter a restaurant or other building. -30 C is really incredibly cold. You just can't stand around in that without proper clothes. I think the problem is that a lot of Americans are incredibly servile and will obey employers, authorities etc., even when it's harmful or dangerous. I especially remember a case where a woman was in court and was sexually assaulted by a marshal, right there with the judge ignoring it. But what I found very curious was how he was obeyed, and how the judge was obeyed. Here in Sweden, neither judge nor marshal would have been obeyed. I think the servility is probably caused by the experience that employers and authorities can get away with anything, and a fear that they will do worse if challenged or attacked.
- sleep-grenade 3y ago
  it somehow feels like a lot of middle-managers explain it to themselves that they also just have no choice but to do what they're told from above and boss people around.. .. but imagine if you were that manager that had told people to stand around in the freezing cold and then someone just dropped dead. or the person above them .. well i guess they probably don't think about this kind of stuff at all i'm just having a hard time putting myself in one of those people's shoes

diebeforei485 3y ago

People should have been told to go to their cars to stay warm.

KennyBlanken 3y ago
It's not that they're not told - they're prohibited from doing so for "theft prevention"