4 ms·

Even the H2 process is horribly inefficient. Just use the electricity directly and store the small amount that is needed for peak levelling in ordinary batteri

Even the H2 process is horribly inefficient. Just use the electricity directly and store the small amount that is needed for peak levelling in ordinary batteries. All these ways of using hydrocarbons are less efficient than batteries and only make sense when the hydrocarbon has a higher energy density and when the density is actually needed. Just install a battery in every new home, make all new homes comply with passivhus standards, put solar panels on top of all new commercial buildings, generally stop wasting energy. And strengthen the interconnects between countries so that places like Spain can sell excess solar to France and thence on to the rest of Europe.

BenoitP 3y ago
I'll add that German plans up to now were to build turbines that could take both gas and H2. Even though these have very different combustions. H2 was brought in to power the green transition. The turbines were to be developed. Now they're actually planning them and cutting cost, surprise surprise, the turbines are gas only.
IshKebab 3y ago
> Just install a battery in every new home, make all new homes comply with passivhus standards, put solar panels on top of all new commercial buildings, generally stop wasting energy. We should definitely do all that. But even that isn't going to be enough. What do you do about the gazillions of existing homes that can't be well insulated, don't have space for solar panels or heat pumps etc. I have a quite modern house (built in the 50s) but I can't get a heat pump because it has microbore heating.
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  > I have a quite modern house (built in the 50s) but I can't get a heat pump because it has microbore heating. Get an air-to-air heat pump like we use in Scandinavia. A quarter the price and a better coefficient of performance. Doesn't heat your water of course.
ianburrell 3y ago
There is a difference between short-term and long-term storage. Smoothing out hourly or daily variations is pretty easy with batteries or hydro. The problem is deficits on cloudy, calm winter days. The amount of batteries would to cover a week would be too expensive. For now, this would be covered by gas plants but at some point need to have green solution. It is also possible to over build solar and wind to cover more days and produce excess capacity. Generated fuels work well for long-term storage since can be generated when there is excess, stored for long period of time, and are used by long-distance vehicles.
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  > There is a difference between short-term and long-term storage. True. But there's no reason you can't use both. So the "smooth out daily variation" and "store energy to address seasonal changes" are 2 problems that can be attacked independently. Maybe some solution(s) may be useful for both jobs, but this is not necessary. I suspect in most cases, batteries will be more practical / economical for short-term storage. For long-term storage (or transporting energy across the globe) methanol is just one of many options.

BenoitP 3y ago

I'll add that German plans up to now were to build turbines that could take both gas and H2. Even though these have very different combustions. H2 was brought in to power the green transition. The turbines were to be developed. Now they're actually planning them and cutting cost, surprise surprise, the turbines are gas only.

IshKebab 3y ago

> Just install a battery in every new home, make all new homes comply with passivhus standards, put solar panels on top of all new commercial buildings, generally stop wasting energy. We should definitely do all that. But even that isn't going to be enough. What do you do about the gazillions of existing homes that can't be well insulated, don't have space for solar panels or heat pumps etc. I have a quite modern house (built in the 50s) but I can't get a heat pump because it has microbore heating.

kwhitefoot 3y ago
> I have a quite modern house (built in the 50s) but I can't get a heat pump because it has microbore heating. Get an air-to-air heat pump like we use in Scandinavia. A quarter the price and a better coefficient of performance. Doesn't heat your water of course.

ianburrell 3y ago

There is a difference between short-term and long-term storage. Smoothing out hourly or daily variations is pretty easy with batteries or hydro. The problem is deficits on cloudy, calm winter days. The amount of batteries would to cover a week would be too expensive. For now, this would be covered by gas plants but at some point need to have green solution. It is also possible to over build solar and wind to cover more days and produce excess capacity. Generated fuels work well for long-term storage since can be generated when there is excess, stored for long period of time, and are used by long-distance vehicles.

RetroTechie 3y ago
> There is a difference between short-term and long-term storage. True. But there's no reason you can't use both. So the "smooth out daily variation" and "store energy to address seasonal changes" are 2 problems that can be attacked independently. Maybe some solution(s) may be useful for both jobs, but this is not necessary. I suspect in most cases, batteries will be more practical / economical for short-term storage. For long-term storage (or transporting energy across the globe) methanol is just one of many options.