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Someone I used to work with was acquihired into Google, despite being one of the most manipulative, conniving, duplicitous people I’ve ever met. A person like t

Someone I used to work with was acquihired into Google, despite being one of the most manipulative, conniving, duplicitous people I’ve ever met. A person like this can get found out at companies that value talent (he has none), but at Google, he’s thriving. This ruined the shine of a Google resume, for me. It’s still great, but it’s just a job now. I look at the specific skills applied during an applicant’s time there, as opposed to previously presuming some level of excellence as a result of working with what I at one point thought were other great engineers.

elektrontamer 3y ago
How is that even possible? Won't he just get exposed in the first performace review? Or is he in some cushy managerial role?
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Your boss got no clue how hard or easy your work is usually. Even if he is a good programmer you need to more or less work side by side to get a grip on someones performance. And smooth talkers game peer reviews.
- romanovcode 3y ago
  I've worked in one big company when something like this actually happened. First week one developer blatantly said to management in-front of the scammer that the scammer (CTO) doesn't know anything about technology and is a complete fraud. The developer got fired 10 minutes later. Others took note to not challenge him if they want to keep their job. That happened ~10 years ago and I am actually grateful for that experience because I was just starting out, the scammer indirectly taught me much more about how to scam and lie your way to the top, how to sell your ideas to unaware management and most importantly - that office politics are 10x more important than merit in big companies.
  - boxed 3y ago
    You learned how to assume the world is broken, and not fix it. That's the path back to a hunter gatherer society. I think that's the wrong lesson to learn.
    - romanovcode 3y ago
      I learned how big companies function and how to get ahead quick. The two things - politics and competence are not mutually exclusive.
    - Intralexical 3y ago
      Hard agree. But yet, what became of the one who did try to fix it?
      - protomolecule 3y ago
        He left that shitty place early and lived happily ever after?
    - vkazanov 3y ago
      This might sound rough but the lesson should be "don't be an idiot". Time for shouting "king's naked!" comes eventually but people who ignore timing will end up losing this game. The secret to this is to understand how other decision-makers see the status quo. Who made a bet on this person? Who understands that he is THE problem? Is right now the best time for a direct opposition? And sometimes it's just easier to accept that it may make sense to work elsewhere.
    - sumtechguy 3y ago
      I had one project where there were about 10 people working on it. Shipped about 10k units. Doing decent but not hockey stick money. Until we hired one guy. We went from a 10 man team to 2. He could not get along with any one. No one could approach his amazingness. He would triangulate people and get them kicked out of the group. Soon those 10k units and 5 customers were getting rather pissed off as nothing was getting done other than giant presentations. He really wanted to be a manager in 6 months. Before he could infect another group with his special touch I politically maneuvered him into the most boring of tasks that no one wanted to do. He had run the one project into the ground. At the right moment I used his own triangulation manipulation bits on him. I had to become that which I despised to basically take him out before he did too much damage. I had him shunted off to a task that if it was done no one cared. It was a pity too as he was a competent programmer. But had too much of an ego to listen to the other decent programmers around him. Moral of that story? There are jerks out there that will take out a well functioning team and not even see they are doing it. Beware of them. The world is not broken. But there are those who start fires because they like to make messes.
  - jjav 3y ago
    > that office politics are 10x more important than merit in big companies My experience (5 startups) is that office politics are 100x more important in small startups. Everything is more concentrated, including the politics. That's why there is so much cofounder drama to go around. At least in a big company there's a lot of inertia and process to tone down the politics a little bit.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      Yeah, I agree. Anecdotes like the GP's just show that big companies aren't immune to these problems (and some big companies are better-run than others). These problems can happen at any company. My experience, at both big and small and also medium-size companies, is that smaller companies usually have much less process and procedures, and can vary greatly from one to another. Big companies have evolved procedures and processes to try to mitigate these human problems. So, for instance, you're much more likely to see sexual harassment and discrimination in a smaller company: if the guy who owns the place is cool with it, it'll be the norm there. Huge companies don't get to be huge these days by tolerating that stuff, and they have a lot of money to lose in a lawsuit, so they put a lot of effort into insulating themselves: anti-harassment training for employees, etc.
    - taurath 3y ago
      Goodness yes. Your relationships literally are your career at small startups. Your reputation means everything. Not to mention the nepotism and the privilege - the people with truckloads of money meeting for dinners afterwards while those who’ve had to budget a house payment in 10 years go for a beer.
    - ljm 3y ago
      Funnily enough my experience of politics was far worse in a larger, more established company than a smaller one. Maybe a different kind of politics, but it was toxic as fuck and my career was basically at the mercy of heads and directors that I would never have reason to interact with. Hit a bump on a project that causes a delay? Expect some higher up to threaten the prospects of the entire team unless we got it done on time. Most of the people engaging and benefitting from such cut-throat politics and gossip had no right to be in such management positions. Non-existent leadership skills. Tiny startups can be equally rough but at least it's more direct.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    > that office politics are 10x more important than merit in big companies. 's/big //'
treprinum 3y ago
My very first boss that I believe is an undiagnosed psychopath is now director level over there. That told me everything I needed to know about any possible direction of the company. I no longer use anything made by them and actively steer everyone I know away to alternatives.
- SkyMarshal 3y ago
  What alternatives do you recommend for email? That's my one google service I have difficulty getting away from.
  - unethical_ban 3y ago
    I use Protonmail. Free tier I think, but I pay $10 a month for a bundle that allows custom domains, calendar, VPN, and storage.
    - atomlib 3y ago
      You pay $120 per year, not $10 per month.
  - johannessjoberg 3y ago
    Fastmail is great and worth the small cost imo
    - slices 3y ago
      aren't they still in Oz, with its govt mandated backdoors?
      - zahllos 3y ago
        Yes and probably, but then Google is in the US.
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    Self-host, easy. No matter the hordes of detractors who will tell you this is impossible and that all your mail will be /dev/nulled by all the usual suspects (Microsoft, Microsoft and Microsoft being the main culprit here, Gmail comes in second) the truth is that you'll be fine as long as you make sure to configure things like SPF and DKIM correctly and you're either using a smarthost for outgoing mail (ask your IAP whether they provide one) or are on a reputable network. A SBC like a Raspberry Pi is sufficient to host mail services for a fairly large number of people. Filter out spam with Spamassassin and a greylist, run sieve to organise your incoming mail flow, use specific mail addresses when communicating with commercial and government organisations and you'll end up asking yourself why so many people insist that self-hosting mail is not an option. Now that you're self-hosting mail you can also self-host XMPP using the same address making it possible for people to reach you through either SMTP (mail) or XMPP (instant messaging/voice/video calling) using that address. This can be hosted on that same SBC without problems. Source: my own experience self-hosting mail (and more) since the 90's. If it worked on a 486DX2-66 it should work on a quad-core 1.5GHz 64-bit ARM...
choppaface 3y ago
Former friend joined Google and started hitting his pet (violently and angrily) and doing heavy drugs. Anthony Levandowski might be an outlier at Google for criminal behavior as well as total comp, but there are plenty of Googlers who you want to have nothing to do with.
cageface 3y ago
Two of the worst colleagues I ever had also went on to thrive at Google. It’s been hard for me to take their claims of only hiring the best since then.
mrintegrity 3y ago
I was at a big conference in Dublin years ago where a Google talking head stated to hundreds of people that "google only hires the most intelligent people" with a grotesquely smug look on her face, instantly turned me off from ever considering applying to work there. Incidentally RMS was also there and screamed from the back "WHICH BSD LICENSE?" when the Google drone said google uses "the bsd license", which I thought was hilarious.
gumballindie 3y ago
> This ruined the shine of a Google resume, for me. What ruined it for me was interviewing ex googlers. Not the PhD levels, but IC. To be fair none passed the inteview. Perhaps it was just the UK google offices. Similar for facebook. At facebook some of the people I know working there are abolutely vile. The types that threatened their coworkers and somehow got away with it. Each organisation favours a certain type and it all comes down from the top.
deanCommie 3y ago
This is the thread I was looking for. In all these glowing odes to the Google that Was that cross Hackernews every day now, about what an incredible and liberating and productive place it was, there's always something missing. The most toxic, conceited, selfish, inflexible, basically the worst stereotype of "genius asshole" engineers I've ever studied with, or worked with, all wound up at Google. And is it a surprise when the entire interview process consists of "Are you good at computer science?"

elektrontamer 3y ago

How is that even possible? Won't he just get exposed in the first performace review? Or is he in some cushy managerial role?

rightbyte 3y ago
Your boss got no clue how hard or easy your work is usually. Even if he is a good programmer you need to more or less work side by side to get a grip on someones performance. And smooth talkers game peer reviews.
romanovcode 3y ago
I've worked in one big company when something like this actually happened. First week one developer blatantly said to management in-front of the scammer that the scammer (CTO) doesn't know anything about technology and is a complete fraud. The developer got fired 10 minutes later. Others took note to not challenge him if they want to keep their job. That happened ~10 years ago and I am actually grateful for that experience because I was just starting out, the scammer indirectly taught me much more about how to scam and lie your way to the top, how to sell your ideas to unaware management and most importantly - that office politics are 10x more important than merit in big companies.
- boxed 3y ago
  You learned how to assume the world is broken, and not fix it. That's the path back to a hunter gatherer society. I think that's the wrong lesson to learn.
  - romanovcode 3y ago
    I learned how big companies function and how to get ahead quick. The two things - politics and competence are not mutually exclusive.
  - Intralexical 3y ago
    Hard agree. But yet, what became of the one who did try to fix it?
    - protomolecule 3y ago
      He left that shitty place early and lived happily ever after?
  - vkazanov 3y ago
    This might sound rough but the lesson should be "don't be an idiot". Time for shouting "king's naked!" comes eventually but people who ignore timing will end up losing this game. The secret to this is to understand how other decision-makers see the status quo. Who made a bet on this person? Who understands that he is THE problem? Is right now the best time for a direct opposition? And sometimes it's just easier to accept that it may make sense to work elsewhere.
  - sumtechguy 3y ago
    I had one project where there were about 10 people working on it. Shipped about 10k units. Doing decent but not hockey stick money. Until we hired one guy. We went from a 10 man team to 2. He could not get along with any one. No one could approach his amazingness. He would triangulate people and get them kicked out of the group. Soon those 10k units and 5 customers were getting rather pissed off as nothing was getting done other than giant presentations. He really wanted to be a manager in 6 months. Before he could infect another group with his special touch I politically maneuvered him into the most boring of tasks that no one wanted to do. He had run the one project into the ground. At the right moment I used his own triangulation manipulation bits on him. I had to become that which I despised to basically take him out before he did too much damage. I had him shunted off to a task that if it was done no one cared. It was a pity too as he was a competent programmer. But had too much of an ego to listen to the other decent programmers around him. Moral of that story? There are jerks out there that will take out a well functioning team and not even see they are doing it. Beware of them. The world is not broken. But there are those who start fires because they like to make messes.
- jjav 3y ago
  > that office politics are 10x more important than merit in big companies My experience (5 startups) is that office politics are 100x more important in small startups. Everything is more concentrated, including the politics. That's why there is so much cofounder drama to go around. At least in a big company there's a lot of inertia and process to tone down the politics a little bit.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    Yeah, I agree. Anecdotes like the GP's just show that big companies aren't immune to these problems (and some big companies are better-run than others). These problems can happen at any company. My experience, at both big and small and also medium-size companies, is that smaller companies usually have much less process and procedures, and can vary greatly from one to another. Big companies have evolved procedures and processes to try to mitigate these human problems. So, for instance, you're much more likely to see sexual harassment and discrimination in a smaller company: if the guy who owns the place is cool with it, it'll be the norm there. Huge companies don't get to be huge these days by tolerating that stuff, and they have a lot of money to lose in a lawsuit, so they put a lot of effort into insulating themselves: anti-harassment training for employees, etc.
  - taurath 3y ago
    Goodness yes. Your relationships literally are your career at small startups. Your reputation means everything. Not to mention the nepotism and the privilege - the people with truckloads of money meeting for dinners afterwards while those who’ve had to budget a house payment in 10 years go for a beer.
  - ljm 3y ago
    Funnily enough my experience of politics was far worse in a larger, more established company than a smaller one. Maybe a different kind of politics, but it was toxic as fuck and my career was basically at the mercy of heads and directors that I would never have reason to interact with. Hit a bump on a project that causes a delay? Expect some higher up to threaten the prospects of the entire team unless we got it done on time. Most of the people engaging and benefitting from such cut-throat politics and gossip had no right to be in such management positions. Non-existent leadership skills. Tiny startups can be equally rough but at least it's more direct.
- OJFord 3y ago
  > that office politics are 10x more important than merit in big companies. 's/big //'

treprinum 3y ago

My very first boss that I believe is an undiagnosed psychopath is now director level over there. That told me everything I needed to know about any possible direction of the company. I no longer use anything made by them and actively steer everyone I know away to alternatives.

SkyMarshal 3y ago
What alternatives do you recommend for email? That's my one google service I have difficulty getting away from.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  I use Protonmail. Free tier I think, but I pay $10 a month for a bundle that allows custom domains, calendar, VPN, and storage.
  - atomlib 3y ago
    You pay $120 per year, not $10 per month.
- johannessjoberg 3y ago
  Fastmail is great and worth the small cost imo
  - slices 3y ago
    aren't they still in Oz, with its govt mandated backdoors?
    - zahllos 3y ago
      Yes and probably, but then Google is in the US.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  Self-host, easy. No matter the hordes of detractors who will tell you this is impossible and that all your mail will be /dev/nulled by all the usual suspects (Microsoft, Microsoft and Microsoft being the main culprit here, Gmail comes in second) the truth is that you'll be fine as long as you make sure to configure things like SPF and DKIM correctly and you're either using a smarthost for outgoing mail (ask your IAP whether they provide one) or are on a reputable network. A SBC like a Raspberry Pi is sufficient to host mail services for a fairly large number of people. Filter out spam with Spamassassin and a greylist, run sieve to organise your incoming mail flow, use specific mail addresses when communicating with commercial and government organisations and you'll end up asking yourself why so many people insist that self-hosting mail is not an option. Now that you're self-hosting mail you can also self-host XMPP using the same address making it possible for people to reach you through either SMTP (mail) or XMPP (instant messaging/voice/video calling) using that address. This can be hosted on that same SBC without problems. Source: my own experience self-hosting mail (and more) since the 90's. If it worked on a 486DX2-66 it should work on a quad-core 1.5GHz 64-bit ARM...

choppaface 3y ago

Former friend joined Google and started hitting his pet (violently and angrily) and doing heavy drugs. Anthony Levandowski might be an outlier at Google for criminal behavior as well as total comp, but there are plenty of Googlers who you want to have nothing to do with.

cageface 3y ago

Two of the worst colleagues I ever had also went on to thrive at Google. It’s been hard for me to take their claims of only hiring the best since then.

mrintegrity 3y ago

I was at a big conference in Dublin years ago where a Google talking head stated to hundreds of people that "google only hires the most intelligent people" with a grotesquely smug look on her face, instantly turned me off from ever considering applying to work there. Incidentally RMS was also there and screamed from the back "WHICH BSD LICENSE?" when the Google drone said google uses "the bsd license", which I thought was hilarious.

gumballindie 3y ago

> This ruined the shine of a Google resume, for me. What ruined it for me was interviewing ex googlers. Not the PhD levels, but IC. To be fair none passed the inteview. Perhaps it was just the UK google offices. Similar for facebook. At facebook some of the people I know working there are abolutely vile. The types that threatened their coworkers and somehow got away with it. Each organisation favours a certain type and it all comes down from the top.

deanCommie 3y ago

This is the thread I was looking for. In all these glowing odes to the Google that Was that cross Hackernews every day now, about what an incredible and liberating and productive place it was, there's always something missing. The most toxic, conceited, selfish, inflexible, basically the worst stereotype of "genius asshole" engineers I've ever studied with, or worked with, all wound up at Google. And is it a surprise when the entire interview process consists of "Are you good at computer science?"