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Noisy brain may underlie some of autism's sensory features

• fidotron 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • RobRivera 3y ago
    NeutralResponse.avi
• swayvil 3y ago
  My bet is on "uncommon attention management strategy".
  • wjb3 3y ago
    Any in particular?
    • swayvil 3y ago
      The brown one
• lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  I'm one who has identified much with descriptions of Autism but never been diagnosed. In particular, the descriptions of monotropism[0] feel like a personal attack. :) The article doesn't seem to mention it but it's common to see similar commentary from diagnosed autistic people who have been introduced to the idea. Now just to find a competent neurologist who's willing to run a brain scan. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotropism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotropism
  • mrangle 3y ago
    Differential diagnosis for adult type 1 autism is really tricky. Due to the fact that so many symptoms are shared with other diagnoses. In addition to monotropism, you'd want to find at least one or two other differentiating traits that are not commonly shared with other diagnoses. You can probably do much of that research and introspection on your own. At least to the point of getting more of a head start. The clinical option is a team diagnosis, which will be expensive. You'd want to weigh what the benefits vs risks (cost, medical records, etc) are for formal diagnosis vs informal (yourself as diagnostician). Especially considering lack of direct treatments.
    • tudorw 3y ago
      A rightly sensitive and complex subject all round, for some reasons I have acquaintances seek my counsel on this subject and in the absence of a diagnosis, which can be hard to get, I suggest applying any of the no harm mitigating strategies often suggested where possible, if it works, you'll probably recognise that, then you can make adaptations with your control at least, a formal diagnosis might not make as much difference as one might feel it should.
      • pbhjpbhj 3y ago
        >I suggest applying any of the no harm mitigating strategies often suggested where possible // Such as? Thanks.
        • mrglick 3y ago
          There are a lot of therapies that can be helpful for people on the autism spectrum and aren’t harmful. One example might be helping people learn how to get out of “Defense Mode”, as advocated by https://www.aspergerexperts.com https://www.aspergerexperts.com (there’s a bit of a sales vibe here since they are a business, but the general perspective has proven very helpful to me as a parent of someone on the spectrum). It’s true that these same therapies might generally be helpful for all people, but that’s why it’s a spectrum.
        • tudorw 3y ago
  • ssalka 3y ago
    My way of thinking tends to be monotropic (?), so much so that I can't quite conceptualize what it's like to not think in this way – can others just subtly keep way more items in their working memory at once? If so, how can they maintain any significant level of focus without "tightening" their field of view to exclude certain things? From my perspective, monotropism is almost to be expected as normal in 90%+ of people. Then again, I may just be extrapolating from my own experience, but if I'm really wrong and only a small % of the populace employs this thinking strategy, I'd be truly dumbfounded.
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      When you're doing something simple like washing the dishes or similar, does it irritate you when someone interrupts you with a reasonable request, like just to ask what you want for dinner? (This has a more specific definition but many think it stems from monotropism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_demand_avoidance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_demand_avoidance. It's also a common trait to see in autistic people (who commonly take issue with the name).) Does washing the dishes not sound simple and instead sound like something which would take a fair amount of focus to make sure you're doing it right? It does for me, at any rate.
      • swozey 3y ago
        I feel like I'm sort of like this but it's because I'm ADHD and if I happen to be doing the laundry it's probably because I walked by it for the last week, finally noticed it's inattention and wanted to do it RIGHT NOW before I forget about it for another week or until I need clothes. I'm reading this article you posted because I wasn't sure of any of this terminology and I never have panic attacks or anything like that, though. I more or less just get startled and want a quick back and forth so I can get right back to it. Definitely could occasionally from off as snappy. Dishes I also forget about unless I do them immediately. So same thing, when I finally walk by the sink and notice them I hyper focus and knock them out super quick like I'm in the zone. This paragraph is confusing me, first PDA is totally bad at all of the bullet points but if PDA is not diagnosed with classic autism spectrum it's actually all positive social stuff? Sounds strange. > Although PDA has its own traits that are separate from autism, people with PDA generally meet the diagnostic criteria by having significant difficulties in social interaction and communication.[1] Alternatively, they may instead be diagnosed with ODD.[1] Those who propose that PDA should be a separate diagnosis from classic autism spectrum disorders, observed that, compared to children with classic autism, those with PDA: * are more sociable * have better social skills and social understanding * use apparently socially manipulative and shocking behaviour[3][4] * are more interested in people than objects * are more comfortable with pretend play, and * are more imaginative
  • mpol 3y ago
    A strange thing about that wikipedia page is, the theory was posited as central to autism, but there is no research cited from after 2010. If it is so central to the autism spectrum, howcome this article is just a bit more than a stub.
    • ajkjk 3y ago
      Perhaps no one has updated it.
    • 15457345234 3y ago
      User-contributed documentation on the internet related to autism is slanted in a way you wouldn't necessarily expect; many people with autism consider the condition an 'identity' rather than a 'diagnosis' and they also tend to be what's colloquially known as 'terminally online.' That results in a rather hostile environment for those who wish to label, discuss, contribute etc to the documentation of the subject. In a similar way the frequently-online Deaf community is remarkably hostile to the idea of cochlear implants in a way that you just don't see among the less-online deaf community.
      • Doxin 3y ago
        Add to that the tendency for medical professionals to ignore the lived experience of people with autism and it's a recipe for disagreement.
      • simondotau 3y ago
        > many people with autism consider the condition an 'identity' rather than a 'diagnosis' To many people with autism, it’s the people without autism which seem in need of a diagnosis.
        • 15457345234 3y ago
          Yeah I know there's a bunch of them that think neurotypicals would benefit from an empathectomy; not my favourite sort of people. But I won't start.
  • austin-cheney 3y ago
    Based upon my observations of a family member an ideal description of autism is constant signal overload that results in faulty assumptions, often hasty or convenient to the moment. The result is decisions that are remarkably short of the careful considerations nominally applied, and taken for granted, by neurotypical people as well as many unfounded fears. My other observation is that this behavior is entirely unrelated to intelligence but it does dictate personality indexes, for example higher neuroticism and lower conscientiousness. I suspect many people incorrectly assume the monotropism as a factor because of an over simplification in isolation.
  • renewiltord 3y ago
    I'm sure things like these are quite common in normal humans. I have a bunch of odd behavioural characteristics too that overlap with mental conditions: clanging, rocking and stimming, and until my mid-20s if I 'touched' something (including stepping on a tile-edge or crack at an angle) on my one side I had to symmetrify with the other side. But my life was fine. I was and am a successful adult with a job and life. Many of these things are probably just the normal variation of the species. I only found out these are named behaviours within the last year. Till then, it was just things I did sometimes or at some time in the past. I imagine many others are also like this and have single or few such things. It progresses to being a disorder when people can't function, but when they can, it's probably just a trait.
    • NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      Yes, it's odd: I had several debilitating behaviors and symptoms for decades, and nobody had ever identified them with me, so I hadn't discussed them or tried to ameliorate them. For example: anxiety. I've always suffered from quite debilitating anxiety, which has verged into hypertension, panic attacks, and assorted complications by now. But 30 years ago, nobody was discussing this basic trouble with me, and so I had no tools for even recognizing it, much less reducing its impact on my life. I was homeless/poor/unemployed for a long, long time, and intellectually I had no satisfying explanation of how I got into those situations. Once I was able to deeply reflect on myself and identify some root causes, and then gain tools to work on those debilitating symptoms, I was much better equipped to fashion a better life, some realistic goals, and a future for myself.
  • furyofantares 3y ago
    > In particular, the descriptions of monotropism[0] feel like a personal attack. :) In what way, can you explain, does it feel like a personal attack?
    • Liquix 3y ago
      a tongue-in-cheek phrase. parent comment is just saying "woah, this concept describes me perfectly" - not "I feel personally hurt while reading this".
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  • donutpepperoni 3y ago
    First time in the wild I've seen someone else reference monotropism- I also feel like it describes me to a t. Thanks for sharing your experience here. Hope you're getting along ok :)
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      Yeah, I encountered it once in comments here, and then a bit more recently as I was doing research. It’s interesting that it’s not more widely discussed but I suspect it’s just because it’s not well-studied. > Hope you're getting along ok :) Thanks! It certainly helps to have a clearer idea of the differences (or potential differences as I try to remind myself) in how I think compared to how others think. I’m glad you feel confidence in the idea as well! I’ve seen it elsewhere but it’s always nice to have this independently “agreed upon” (since I don’t quite want to call it “confirmed”).
    • Fnoord 3y ago
      There's a word describing that: geek.
  • Aurornis 3y ago
    > Now just to find a competent neurologist who's willing to run a brain scan. FYI: Autism isn’t diagnosed by brain imaging. It’s an area of active research and there have been a few small studies from researchers claiming progress with fMRI techniques, but there is no current imaging test a doctor can order to check you for autism. So if you do find a neurologist who claims to be able to diagnose you by brain scan, you should actually leave that doctor and find a better one.
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      That was a bit tongue-in-cheek; mostly I don’t expect current diagnostic tests to be effective, especially considering how often people will suggest to get many opinions. I have heard that certain patterns can be seen in the brain activity of autistic people as early as the age of 2. The progress which has been claimed by researchers, I presume. I do expect that to be a more consistent diagnosis option in the future but, to your point, that may just be wishful thinking.
      • Fnoord 3y ago
        Many opinions? Huh? We both have autism diagnosis and there are so many traits we recognize in our children (5 y.o. female, 3 y.o. male) that in a few years during a heteroanamnesis they also will surely ding ding the boxes. From stimmung to all kind of other behavior we also expressed in our youth. But we remained undiagnosed until well into adulthood and we want our children to land more softly than that.
        • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
          “Many opinions” meaning to include many medical professionals in the process. “Many” being “more than one” because I’m a sort-of DBA professionally. I just mean that I commonly hear the advice to get a second or third opinion, or otherwise to involve a team of professionals, were one to seek a diagnosis.
          • Fnoord 3y ago
  • Fnoord 3y ago
    I'm diagnosed. No brain scan required, but heteroanamnesis was. People who know you well like your parents or partner will be extensively interviewed. As well as yourself, and you (and they) will get many questionnaires which will be cross referenced. Doesn't feel like an insult at all to me. But then again I've long ago accepted the way I am (society does not). The way I feel is constantly between bored and overloaded. Simple tasks can overload, yet complex matter or social settings (birthdays, dinner, chrores, etc) can bore me. I have this with programming but also putting the dishes in the dishwasher but also in gaming. There are too many possibilities. Yet I really dig the freedom to explore the puzzles. Because if the sandbox is too strict, I feel trapped. Which is why vi is a great editor but also one I will never fully master. And that's OK; c'est la vi.
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      > Doesn't feel like an insult at all to me. That’s too funny. I should have known better! I didn’t mean it literally as a personal attack. This comment describes how I meant it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39050062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39050062. I definitely appreciate that it was taken literally. I often do that unless I’ve already encountered the phrase.
    • wkat4242 3y ago
      That sounds very familiar. Either being bored or completely overloaded. Both are pretty demotivating unfortunately.
    • SequoiaHope 3y ago
      I had such a hard time researching autism after someone mentioned it might apply to me because I found most articles to be very stigmatizing. A lot of language like "ASD is a developmental disorder that impairs a person's ability to communicate" etc. Looking for actual examples now, I am seeing more nuanced language (eg "People with ASD may respond differently to the world"), but the stigmatizing language I previously found really put me off of it for a long time. Slowly I have embraced my differences as somehow on the spectrum, but I still sort of have this feeling of "different people are different" and I question whether pathologizing differences is that useful. Though I do hear people who say that diagnosis was helpful to them.
  • RobRivera 3y ago
    DAMNIT it me.
  • smeej 3y ago
    I don't know if this will be helpful to you specifically, or maybe just someone else who reads these comments, but I also thought for years that I was autistic, without having been formally diagnosed. Even my mother thought so when I explained it to her. Difficulty reading social cues, sensory overwhelm, robotic affect and processing--all totally normal for me. In my case, I later discovered that early childhood trauma's symptoms can often mimic autism, especially if the perpetrator is the type of gaslighter who denies that they meant what every nonverbal cue suggested they meant. Even the sensory overwhelm can happen because of trauma, because if you were not safe when your neural pathways were forming, you may have learned to pay keener attention to your environment looking for threats, at the same time that your parasympathetic nervous system never developed the normal ability to down-regulate your stress responses because the threat was never really over. There's every chance you specifically are an autistic adult who's never been diagnosed, or who just has autism-like traits. I just want to bring it up for anyone for whom it might be helpful.
    • Fnoord 3y ago
      Why not both?
      • smeej 3y ago
        It could be both. Thanks for that reminder. In my case, it turned out not to be, as working through the trauma eliminated the symptoms that had previously been interpreted as caused by autism, but it's certainly possible to be both autistic and a trauma survivor.
    • wkat4242 3y ago
      I'm also not diagnosed but I certainly have some traits. Especially Asperger traits. I'm not sure if I have it either. I've asked some professionals and they all tended towards no, though most were a long time ago. Personally I think yes. Someone else said it could be ADHD which I also have some overlap with but also not a strong match. But I'm not going out of my way to label it. I'm clearly not neurotypical but whatever label I put on it doesn't really change that. Learning to live with it does make it a lot more bearable though.
  • wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
    Neurotypical people are overwhelmingly monotropic. Humans will often focus largely on the social aspect of the conversation at the cost of reason. Walk for an hour and not notice 99% of the information around them. Internal systems that select points of interest in the data coming in aim monotropism. It is an intended feature not a bug. I don't think it has anything to do with autism.
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      I struggle to disagree, actually. It makes me wonder if the observations which we refer to as autism are really just observations of the differences people have with where they choose to focus their attention. That doesn’t explain the particularly debilitating experiences that some suffer but it may explain how others can relate so strongly but still hold down a job. Anyway, I haven’t really heard of “polytropism”. Maybe nobody thinks that way. I don’t know how much that topic has been explored.
      • wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
        We likely wont have a strong theory of how brain architecture results in unique emergent temperments and subjective experiences until weve got data collected from millions of people with chips in their head, and a large database to work with. Until then, I will remain agnostic on any theory unless it is very obviously causal.
        • 0xEF 3y ago
          This is an interesting take that I hadn't considered the reality of, before. We rely a lot on self-reporting but only for lack of a better option that doesn't violate ethical conventions. Self-reporting is subjective, making the data shakey at best, but even an objective observer can misinterpret what is being observed. I'm mot much of a scientist or philosopher, but that seems like a remarkably large problem when it comes to truly understanding the human brain. How does neuroscience get around this problem, and how close are we to actual "brain chips" that could provide viable diagnostic data?
    • 3y ago
  • xwolfi 3y ago
    Depends: I m probably the opposite of someone with autism: I love chatting with strangers, I can dance with girls in clubs until 8am on a whim at the despair of my gf, I m very chatty in general and overshare. I suffer strongly when I see others suffer so I probably have working mirror neurons (empathy). I seek social connections and moved to Hong Kong to be surrounded by dense population rather than feel so lonely in Paris. This immigration adventure was the highlight of my life and I enjoyed tremendously the danger, the unknown, the overloading of things to do and learn. Yet, I feel connected to monotropism in some way: I can only get interested almost obsessively in one thing at a time and completely forget and disregard anything and anyone else. It s very annoying for people around me and many find me autistic somehow, geeky at best. All Im saying is, either it s really what a "spectrum" is or it s just a sort of common human traits. Us programmers had to be a bit obsessed with computers to dedicate most of our waking time to it, and everyone here is probably sharing this trait, none of us being really autists and may sound disrespectful or misguided calling ourselves so ?
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      > I suffer strongly when I see others suffer (empathy) It might be worth looking more into this. I’d describe myself similarly and I’ve heard it described similarly: > Many autistic individuals report feelings of excessive empathy, yet their experience is not reflected by most of the current literature, typically suggesting that autism is characterized by intact emotional and reduced cognitive empathy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9804307/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9804307/ The rest is very interesting! It might be a bit “exposing”, if you’ll pardon the pun, but there are many “masking” behaviors an autistic person might learn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masking_(personality) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masking_(personality) It’s also not unheard of for autistic people to live healthy social lives and even engage socially to varying degrees. I wouldn’t discount it even based on the all-night clubbing given what I’ve read but that’s definitely getting way more into my personal opinion and factually exceptional territory for those who’ve been formally diagnosed. (Not trying to lead you too strongly. Just offering information in case you haven’t encountered it. You know how you think better than anyone else!) The point about “spectrum” or “regular” is interesting too. I think that’s kinda why I find this monotropism vs. “polytropism?” idea so fascinating. I want to hear about the other thing more, at this point -- assuming it exists. It feels like a good topic to explore more. Edit: Just caught this too: > I m very chatty in general and overshare This can also describe an autistic person’s social behavior. Generally, I’ve read it manifests as talking a bit too much about a topic they’re interested in, possibly even irritating others with their focus on it. (A lot of “me irl” stuff in this personally.) I’ll even go out on a limb and guess you’ve been accused multiple times of “dominating a conversation”. Correct me if I’m wrong! Anyway, it just makes me wonder more about the real differences in how people think. Why does that sort of disagreement even happen?
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• alphazard 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • MrDrone 3y ago
    Do you have any sources that present this to be the case in terms of diagnosing ADHD or autism at all?
  • redcobra762 3y ago
    I think you unintentionally insult those who “habitually practiced poor executive function.” Why would they do that, if it’s harmful to them? Many medical professionals would say these choices are strong indicators of a “hardware problem.” It’s possible there is severity factor you’re ignoring; do less severe sufferers of ADHD not have ADHD, because they’re not hurting “enough” to satisfy your criteria of disease?
    • conradev 3y ago
      > Why would they do that, if it’s harmful to them? Because they don't know any better? My understanding is that the two treatment options regardless of diagnosis and regardless of hardware are either "medicine" or "self-awareness leading to behavioral change" (where therapy is often the delivery mechanism, but can also be self-help or mindfulness)
    • alphazard 3y ago
      Someone said "the greatest minds of my generation are focused on getting people to click ads". That is what has lead to habitually poor executive function. Go look at YouTube shorts, or TikTok. There are videos which are literally two videos stacked vertically. Apparently this is because 1 video isn't stimulating enough to keep people from clicking away. That wasn't normal 10 years ago, and would have been uncomfortable for many people to watch. People's brains have changed, formed new habits, through repeated practice. I'm not insulting anyone, most people don't realize they are training their brain in a way they won't appreciate later. ADHD was first recognized as a condition well before the internet. Clearly there is a way you can have this condition genetically or from your early environment. But now there is a boom in ADHD diagnosis, and it's not because the original etiology has become more prevalent. Which do you think is more likely: single etiology with varying severity, or multiple etiologies presenting with similar syndromes?
• Lemontology 3y ago
  A multi-"salt" magnesium plus some glutathione antioxidant could temporarily calm some of the noise. Look into trans-cranial ultrasound (low power for 30-90 second sessions once or twice a day separated by at least 4 hours) (but this isn't even beyond trials yet), and Earthing which is stepping out barefoot onto the ground). Then vitamin C to recycle the glutathione, protecting it from its breakdown through its job. All of these therapies would be calming inflammation and oxidative stress (both related to each other and to stray/excess electrical charges in the wrong places or out of control). The magnesium I would use is "Magnesium Breakthrough" by "BIOptimizers" since it contains a large variety of salts. The bio-availability and especially the preferential uptake into specific organs...of Mg seems to be dependent on form, or salt. And MIT students, a few years back, invented Magnesium-Threonate is also of therapeutic use as one possible tool, since it increases synapse density and neuroplasticity. Giving the chance of a brain to basically re-wire itself can be helpful when it is not functioning properly. Lastly, fish oil, not snake oil, is going to help the body make the best membrane-encapsulated neuron bodies so that the brain is shuttling its neurotransmitters (which are basically signaling molecules) in a smooth and balanced functional pattern. Other areas for YOU to RESEARCH before purchasing anything are these two things: Probiotics (like Seed DS-01), and Light. Look for a red and infrared light for winter and even summer use. It modifies the power of mitochondria. See this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3179978/#:~:text=While%20a%20large%20population%2Dbased,children%20with%20ASD%20(12) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3179978/#:~:tex.... It always helps to be the doctor but if you can't be for lack of time or dont have a naturally discerning mind, then get an opinion from a hormone or sports clinic which is designed to optimize, not a family doctor who wants food on kids' plates rather than competition with supplements. And your kid does need to eat food too, as a base. It might just be that doctors have an inborn instinct to protect their valuable secret knowledge from falling into three wrong hands like a Google algorithm unless you have the right keywords, then you'll be rewarded with the right knowledge. I'd like a conversation of such insights as you might have about this and autism, given the fact that also when I was a child, I felt like I was pretty much just watching the life around me and taking notes, or not developing attention and communicating with kids my age in school or making friends. If you want your kid to talk more but they have autism, maybe introduce from an interest of their's to a conversational style designed to be technical and teach the vocabulary of the thing that they like learning about.
• growingkittens 3y ago
  A lot of autism and disability research sounds like it's written from the "outside in" - like peering into a window vs. being in a house. I wonder how much research engages disabled people about their experience vs. observation or rote, systematic questions with assumptions.
  • iteria 3y ago
    A lot of the problem of this idea is that there's only a smal set of ASD people who can even engage in this kind of work. It's a big argument in the community about higher functioning austistic people speaking as if they represent all. Personally, I think we have a lot of foundational research to do since I'm not convinced that what we call autism isn't like 3 or 4 diseases/disorders in a trench coat.
    • growingkittens 3y ago
      [dead]
    • tbalsam 3y ago
      What. Most people are high functioning ASD, it's a pareto distribution like almost every neurodivergent condition. Also, a shocking amount of competent researchers are autistic. As to the cause issue, yes, many potential causes, classification bins are useful when a cause has a shared dynamic since the symptom groups are similar. Just like 'cancer', they're all different. I know very few excellent (as in near top of the field) researchers who aren't autistic or ADHD or neurodivergent in some kind of a way, I have no idea where you're getting this idea from. It's one of the few fields that we excel at far and above other people (bias-variance tradeoff, as per an earlier comment of mine).
      • dukeyukey 3y ago
        > What. Most people are high functioning ASD, it's a pareto distribution like almost every neurodivergent condition You're probably overstating this - only about 20% of (diagnosed) autistic adults have jobs [1, 2], and a huge percentage of those who are, work part-time. Around 30% of autistic people are "minimally verbal" (speak 30 or fewer words) [3], and will need support for life. More than half overall will never live a normal life. Obv this doesn't count undiaignosed cases, but people with autism who can live an independent life, keep relationships and hold down a job are in the minority, and an awful lot of the discourse around autism just ignores this outright. [1] https://i-am-autism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/autism-and-work.pdf https://i-am-autism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/autism... [2] https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/new-data-on-the-autism-employment-gap https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/new-data-on-the-au... [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27120989/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27120989/
• Solvency 3y ago
  What about non-autistic migraine sufferers with extreme tendency towards sensory overload? eg: smells especially fragrances, loud noises, ultra quiet noises, repetitive noises, too many people talking at once, etc? Half of those can trigger a migraine. The other half just overwhelm me to where I feel incredible stress and need to remove myself. But zero other autistic symptoms.
  • krupan 3y ago
    Maybe this: https://hsperson.com/ https://hsperson.com/
• wegfawefgawefg 3y ago
  The connection between noise and the emergent consequent of that noise being autism is quite an assumption. Even with the gene in common
• aantix 3y ago
  Does anyone else find that brain noisiness and ruminations reduce as you ingest more magnesium?
  • sanroot99 3y ago
    What?! Really? How did u increased magnesium intake
    • bruce343434 3y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Nutrition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Nutrition
  • ddmf 3y ago
    I'm really bad with sound sensitivities, but magnesium helps make them less sharp and painful, great for helping me get to sleep also. It can give me erectile dysfunction though. Another autistic person put me on to magnesium, their reckoning was that it could be an ion channel issue.
• bitxbitxbitcoin 3y ago
  Noisey as in - virtual snow kind of noisey?
  • kridsdale1 3y ago
    Hey Hiro, you want to buy some SnowCrash?
• idbehold 3y ago
  I don't think this is the same thing as "noisy brain", but I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this before since it sounded similar. Sometimes, typically when I'm sick and I'm trying to sleep through the symptoms (e.g. sleep all night and all day), it seems like my brain gets bored or something and suddenly I cannot stop thinking/dreaming about something. That something is different every time it happens, but it's the same thing over and over repeating in my head. Eventually my head starts to hurt and I'm seemingly forced to be awake as it is the only way to stop this.
  • GuardianCaveman 3y ago
    That happened to me a lot more as a child but i think still sometimes as an adult. I remember a dream just bouncing a basketball over and over. It's weird.
  • tkcranny 3y ago
    Not uncommon at all, it sounds like you’re describing the literal “Fever Dream” phenomena, where you have strange and intense dreams and thoughts while asleep and drifting off.
    • idbehold 3y ago
      Brilliant! I finally have a term for it. Though, while it does happen more often when I'm sick, it still sometimes happens when I'm not. Maybe I just have a hot-running brain. Anyways, thank you again for an actual term I can search with.
  • mcmoor 3y ago
    It's what I actually look forward to when I have fever. My brain is more malleable to imagine strange things that I can manipulate.
  • mFixman 3y ago
    I found that podcasts help a lot with noisy brain at night, particularly long-form multi-episode podcasts that force you to pay attention. Podcasts flood my brain with non-anxious information and, unlike books, you don't stop "reading" them when you are dozing off and in the early phases of sleep.
• keepamovin 3y ago
  Can someone explain what this means? “It’s nice that they use hindpaw stimulation as it adds a translational component” says Anubhuti Goel, assistant professor of psychology at the University of California, Riverside, who was not involved in the study. Past research has often opted for whisker stimulation, which is clearly not relevant to people, she says. Translational means it can translate more easily to people? I don't really get it tho.
  • daseiner1 3y ago
    Like the mice in question, humans also have limbs. Unlike the mice in question, we do not have whiskers. So this study shows that the previously observed trend is not whisker-dependent. Doesn’t strike me as a particularly significant nor interesting point.
    • keepamovin 3y ago
      I guess it isn't -- if you're knowledgeable in this I suppose -- I just didn't understand it, sorry. Haha! :) So the translational refers to how the results can translate across species or at least translate from previous studies by showing it's not dependent on whiskers, alright, cool. Thank you! :)
      • radus 3y ago
        The term translational is frequently used to describe basic research (eg. with cells or mice) that has applications to human health - findings in lab that make it to the clinic.
        • keepamovin 3y ago
          Thank you! Explained! Marked as answered :) hahaha! :)
• rpmisms 3y ago
  I have a feeling this might be the cause of the Ballmer peak. I'm ASD, used to be way worse, grew partially out of it, but when it's bad, the Ballmer peak makes me function like a normal human with the focus of an autist. The rest of the time, it's a normal buzz.
  • sli 3y ago
    ADHD is often comorbid with ASD and people with ADHD disproportionally use drugs and alcohol to self-medicate. I certainly focus much better on my work after a beer, but not two. Cannabis does it, too, but similar deal of "one, not two," just not as easily quantifiable.
• CitizenKane 3y ago
  I'm autistic and while it's nice to see ongoing research, I can't help but feel like this misses the point somewhat. In particular I've seen a number of studies that make the jump from Fragile X syndrome to autism which I think is ill advised to say the least. There are a large number of genes[1] that are related to autistic individuals, and it's a very heterogeneous condition. In particular many, perhaps even most autistic individuals don't suffer from intellectual disability, don't have any physical characteristics which would set them apart from others, and don't tend to have problems with memory. All of these are characteristics of Fragile X syndrome. > “Imagine being at a party, talking to a friend while music is playing in the background,” Frick says. “You have to integrate the sound of their voice with the movement of their lips.” But if there’s variability in sensory processing, socializing will be more challenging, he says. And I'll take issue with this in particular. Frankly, the social issues of autistic individuals are wildly overstated and can be easily explained. Believe me, I know quite a few autistic folks and none of them have issues understanding when someone is speaking, we can tell. However, trying to sync up different minds that operate in different ways is a difficult problem. Even among men and women with the same neurotype there's enough difference to cause _substantial_ misunderstandings. Enough ink has been spilled on the topic of relations between the sexes to fill oceans. And the difference between neurotypes is far more substantial than the difference between sexes in this regard. It's very easy for me to socialize with other autistic folks, I've had many conversations that have lasted hours on end. Doing the same thing with someone who is neurotypical though is much more difficult, and usually requires a willingness to put up with the awkwardness of not having the same vibe. Finally, I won't go into anything about using mouse models for complex neurological conditions at the moment. But suffice to say, this article would be more properly titled "Noisy brain may underlie some of Fragile X syndrome's sensory features", but that probably doesn't get the same amount of attention. [1] https://gene.sfari.org/ https://gene.sfari.org/
  • Anotheroneagain 3y ago
    What they actually mean is that the music is so loud that it's PHYSICALLY impossible to hear, and "neurotypical" people are making up what other people say.
  • satokema 3y ago
• tbalsam 3y ago
  Hi! I'm rather autistic. This is a straightforward consequence of the bias-variance tradeoff, autistic brains tend to get too much information which is mathematically indistinguishable from noise. This is why many of the repetitive patterns, social blindness, strong habituation, meltdowns, shutdowns, isolation, etc, work, they are informationally-linked coping mechanisms. It is weird to me how advanced in some areas we are and how pop sci or culturally narrative driven in others. These are some extraordinarily basic ideas from basic and moderate information theory, there are more but it is difficult for me to summarize well and distinctly. Everyone go read Shannon, then Varley's info theory for complex system scientists. So many brain (and otherwise) phenomenons make sense and have strong predictive power for the complexity of the model, but that is sort of trivial since the brain does operate with informational dynamics by default.
  • CitizenKane 3y ago
    Fellow autistic person here, and in my mind you've hit the nail on the head. It's an information game for sure, like trying to drink from a fire hose of information and make sense of it somehow. I guess it's a matter of using Fourier analysis in a way, but that's a hard ask to do on your own thoughts, feelings, and sensations.
• gtsnexp 3y ago
  It makes one wonder about the hyperconnectivity hypothesis: https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/18/4/763/281733 https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/18/4/763/281733
• jordiburgos 3y ago
  Or may not.
• sublinear 3y ago
  Autism is the biggest racket going for the majority of diagnoses. You're not "not neurotypical" you're just neglected and being sold.
  • bigallen 3y ago
    Who benefits from an autism diagnosis, and what are those benefits?
    • sublinear 3y ago
      https://www.google.com/search?q=autism+medicaid+fraud https://www.google.com/search?q=autism+medicaid+fraud Autism diagnosis benefits health care providers and the other concurrent symptoms can invite a circus of specialists. The targets are usually disadvantaged children whose parents don't really know how to handle the situation and frankly don't care if the costs are covered. There are often financial incentives for the parents as well from additional aid (monthly checks, tax return credits, etc.) while the diagnosis stands. The symptoms of autism can be just behavioral to get a diagnosis and too many times that can be explained by plain old inadequate parenting. Lots of these parents are themselves depressed, addicted, or suffering from other mental health issues. The resulting behavior from the child makes perfect sense. The resolution can be as simple as letting grandma babysit more often. But that's not an acceptable solution once the public schools have recognized the child as special needs. Of course the schools benefit too. Gotta get those numbers up to justify the subsidies. I've seen it. Many others have too. I don't get why this is controversial.
• ssl-3 3y ago
  As an undiagnosed but frequently-accused autistic person: > Up to 90 percent of autistic people report sensory problems, including heightened sensitivity to sounds or an aversion to certain smells. Yet others barely register sensory cues and may seek out sensations by making loud noises or rocking back and forth. I couldn't read anything after that last sentence. It seems like nonsense to me, and therefore it seems that everything after it is also likely to be nonsense. I don't (and haven't) done things like make loud noise or rock back and forth because I somehow seek to have more sensation. But I have done things like that because the sensations I am perceiving are too intense (even if those sensations do not exist outside of my own head). In normal daily discourse, the last thing I want is more uncontrolled and inescapable stimulation. And when uncontrollable stimulation gets to be too much (which can happen in a quiet and empty room, or a very loud and busy room full of colors and scents) and becomes overwhelming, I sometimes seek to whelm myself with things that can be controlled. But that's never because I'm seeking more. It can be because I want or sometimes need for the noise (eg, the scents, scenes, tastes, sounds, physical sensations, and internal noise like pain and internal dialogue[s] and strong emotions) to cease, but since that is often impossible then the best I can do is give myself something else that I can control to focus on. And that could mean making loud noises, or rocking. It can also include literally running away, or vocal outrage that surprises anyone around. The antidote could include lots of things. But it's always just an attempt at an antidote; it isn't ever an attempt to feel more. I think that if "up to 90 percent of autistic people report sensory problems" is true, then "at least 10% of autistic people are completely misunderstood" must also be true.
• _lvbh 3y ago
  Somewhat related: I pretty much have to blast random noise to stop my brain from going weird places when I’m trying to sleep. Some weird examples: - Simulated conversations between random people. I might not even be involved - Wait did I remember to do this? (Usually something related to code) - Geometric nightmares (it’s hard to describe. I’m awake and conscious but there’s a large expanding object in my head and it makes me want to jump out the window) Had issues for years until I realized that putting on podcasts in foreign languages or just random assortments of sounds (no patterns or else I’ll think about it) stops it from wandering. Is this a case of a noisy brain or do I have actual issues?
  • zakisaad 3y ago
    Wow; this is the first I've seen someone else describe "geometric nightmares". You're spot on in that they're "hard to describe" - they used to happen very frequently when I was younger and could never explain them.
  • la_oveja 3y ago
    i just remembered last weekend, having a hard hungover, i was half-asleep and my brain was just repeating the number "142". Like, on repeat, for god knows how long. felt lowkey creepy, i imagine stuff like that happens regularly i just dont remember it afterwards
  • spangry 3y ago
    > Geometric nightmares Glad I'm not the only one! I also remember this feeling of terror associated with being ground or crushed by the object. I'd wake in a panic but still semi-asleep and unable to shake the feeling of terror, stuck in an waking abstract nightmare and completely inconsolable. I also remember a weird auditory effect during this waking part where it was very quiet but the quiet would seem unbearably loud. Kind of like when you turn up the gain on a stereo and that background hissing noise gets louder and louder.
  • chillingeffect 3y ago
    Please take my offer of compassion. Look up hypnogogia. It can be extreme, but everyone has it to a degree. it's the brain switching gears. It's like swapping out a nintendo cartridge while it's powered on. Try to relax and trust it as a natural phenomenon. Self-help junkies actually use this to make changes :)
• Anotheroneagain 3y ago
  This has no chance of leading anywhere. You'd need to figure out what's wrong with other people. Move more than 50 years back, and the autist would be the normal one. Move anywhere from the highly westernized world, and the autist will be the normal one. The other people are brain damaged.