3 ms·

> 1. the height is generally determined by the height of the fire ladders available, providing a second means of egress This is an interesting requirement and

> 1. the height is generally determined by the height of the fire ladders available, providing a second means of egress This is an interesting requirement and makes me wonder if some of the need for two staircases comes from the proximity - or lack thereof - to fire services. I'd be sitting in a burning home for a long time if I had to wait for a fire ladder.

flandish 3y ago
Ground fire ladders are about 35’ max. Aerial apparatus (trucks/quints) around the US are normally around 80-110 feet in length. My current tower rig is 85’, our next will be 105. Consider that is ladder length and the “true” height is really a hypotenuse on a right triangle with one side the building. We can generally reach most of our properties just fine, as our tallest is about 5 stories. However there are some across a river with access harder in front, and a ladder across the river is the way to go.
bobthepanda 3y ago
A lot of the requirements make sense in bigger buildings. It's not easy to evacuate a large office building taking up a city block using only ladders. And some of it is reactive; for example, there is a distance separation requirement for stairwells, because during 9/11 the three North Tower stairwells were only 70 feet apart and enclosed only with gypsum, so they were all severed on impact, dooming the people above the impact zone. But none of this is really relevant for a building with six floors and 24 units total. The American city topology is basically office towers surrounded by single family homes; in the midcentury we demolished a lot of the in-between building stock, which is now referred to by urbanists as the "missing middle". Compare this to Europe or Japan which is largely buildings in between those sizes.
- eru 3y ago
  Even Singapore has lots of those middle sized buildings missing from the US.
Aeolun 3y ago
I think in Japanese apartment buildings they’re all required to have their own rope ladder? Since you go from balcony to balcony they don’t even have to be very long.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  There's no rope ladder in my apartment here. I've never heard of such a thing.

flandish 3y ago

Ground fire ladders are about 35’ max. Aerial apparatus (trucks/quints) around the US are normally around 80-110 feet in length. My current tower rig is 85’, our next will be 105. Consider that is ladder length and the “true” height is really a hypotenuse on a right triangle with one side the building. We can generally reach most of our properties just fine, as our tallest is about 5 stories. However there are some across a river with access harder in front, and a ladder across the river is the way to go.

bobthepanda 3y ago

A lot of the requirements make sense in bigger buildings. It's not easy to evacuate a large office building taking up a city block using only ladders. And some of it is reactive; for example, there is a distance separation requirement for stairwells, because during 9/11 the three North Tower stairwells were only 70 feet apart and enclosed only with gypsum, so they were all severed on impact, dooming the people above the impact zone. But none of this is really relevant for a building with six floors and 24 units total. The American city topology is basically office towers surrounded by single family homes; in the midcentury we demolished a lot of the in-between building stock, which is now referred to by urbanists as the "missing middle". Compare this to Europe or Japan which is largely buildings in between those sizes.

eru 3y ago
Even Singapore has lots of those middle sized buildings missing from the US.

Aeolun 3y ago

I think in Japanese apartment buildings they’re all required to have their own rope ladder? Since you go from balcony to balcony they don’t even have to be very long.

shiroiuma 3y ago
There's no rope ladder in my apartment here. I've never heard of such a thing.