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I, and a lot of other people, buy iPhones specifically because they are not Androids - it's hard to break them, install something horrible, etc. It's also why I

I, and a lot of other people, buy iPhones specifically because they are not Androids - it's hard to break them, install something horrible, etc. It's also why I recommend iPhones to older folk, like my mom, and from what I can tell, the need for me to help them out has decreased a ton since they stopped using Androids. So why are you pushing for everything to have to be a general purpose computer? Why can't there be one phone maker that caters to those who don't want something like that? Why can't you just use Android, which is that? I just find it incredibly unfair that everything has to be the same for some odd reason for people who keep pushing for these things.

yowzadave 3y ago
I feel like this "console" vs. "general computer" distinction is something Apple invented for the sake of their legal argument, and people are just accepting it as a thing. There's no reason why you can't have a console that allows sideloading. In fact, I have one: the Playdate. It has an on-device app store, but if I want I can also install any app manually. Most users who have a Playdate will only ever use the app store--they will get a curated set of apps, and every game purchase will have a cut taken by Playdate. It's sticky because it's the most convenient, and it's already on the device. This is the "safe" experience that the average user wants. But if you want to do your own thing and install some other app you found on the internet, you can! You can also run your own apps that you write!
rchaud 3y ago
> I, and a lot of other people, buy iPhones specifically because they are not Androids - it's hard to break them, install something horrible, etc. Sounds like those Mac v PC ads from 20 years ago. Do you think Android users are constantly getting viruses on their phones and having their bank accounts drained? As the NSO spyware has proven, if someone wants to break your phone, they can. Apple's 30% protection racket won't be able to intervene.
- askonomm 3y ago
  I don't think or care about any of this. But my anecdotal evidence of seeing my elderly family members requiring a lot less help to clean their phones from unwanted spamware/adware that is crippling the device performance has gone down noticeably since the move from Android to iPhone. And I care a lot about that. All that power of Android is great for the Hacker News crowd, not so great for regular people who might not be very tech savvy.
amelius 3y ago
> So why are you pushing for everything to have to be a general purpose computer? Not the parent commenter, but I suppose that the main problem is that there is a duopoly. So either they should be forced to make general-purpose computers (so they can be made to do what the user wants), or there should be more competition, so you can have your locked-down computer, and I can have my general purpose computer.
- Vegenoid 3y ago
  What is preventing more companies from creating more mobile operating systems? Are they hamstrung by efforts from the duopoly to keep them down? Or is it just hard? If the latter, should government take action to help foster their creation, like tax breaks?
  - lukeschlather 3y ago
    Creating an alternative OS isn't the problem, it's that manufacturers like Apple prevent installing alternative operating systems.
    - Vegenoid 3y ago
      What is stopping a company from making a phone that can run other operating systems? I am genuinely curious to hear from people who have domain knowledge, I’m not trying to make a point
      - johnny22 3y ago
        There's nothing stopping a company from making such a phone. The pixel phones from google can probably already boot a regular linux kernel for example if you unlock the bootloader. Then we'd need documentation to be able to actually write drivers. Another part of the problem is how fast the tech is moving outside of the iphones, which makes it harder for anybody to focus on specific hardware.
  - miki123211 3y ago
cthaeh 3y ago
[dead]
shkkmo 3y ago
> So why are you pushing for everything to have to be a general purpose computer? They are already general purpose computers that have been locked down. I strongly believe users should be able to own their devices no matter what kind. While users should be able to keep those devices locked down if they choose, they should also be able to unlock them and run any software or OS they choose. I think this applies to consoles just as much as it does to smartphones and tractors. Allowing companies to prevent users from owning their devices puts less tech savy consumers who don't understand the risks at the mercy of the giant corporations.
leereeves 3y ago
Why can't you simply download everything from the App Store and avoid sideloading? If enough people refuse to sideload, developers will continue to provide the App Store as an option. Then you can pay Apple for their curation services if you find those services valuable, and other people won't be forced to pay.
- davidjade 3y ago
  Why can’t I recommend a device to my elderly parents where I don’t have to worry about social media apps that trick them into installing apps from outside Apple’s App Store? Apps which are then free to ignore Apple’s guidelines and policies and other anti-deceptive policies? Apple’s App Store review may not be perfect but Apple trying to police apps to make them adhere to some guidelines is better than nothing. Remember with Facebook pushed a sneaky VPN as part of their iOS app so they could better track users?
  - leereeves 3y ago
    You can't trust Apple to protect your elderly parents from being tricked. There are so many stories of people (even children) who unknowingly spent thousands of dollars on the App Store and in app purchases. Compared to that, a Facebook app with better tracking is trivial.
  - yowzadave 3y ago
    > social media apps that trick them into installing apps from outside Apple’s App Store Apple could make this against the terms of service for App Store apps, and ban any apps that violate them. If the sideloading option exists, then Apple should be free to regulate the behavior of in-App Store behavior more strictly.

yowzadave 3y ago

I feel like this "console" vs. "general computer" distinction is something Apple invented for the sake of their legal argument, and people are just accepting it as a thing. There's no reason why you can't have a console that allows sideloading. In fact, I have one: the Playdate. It has an on-device app store, but if I want I can also install any app manually. Most users who have a Playdate will only ever use the app store--they will get a curated set of apps, and every game purchase will have a cut taken by Playdate. It's sticky because it's the most convenient, and it's already on the device. This is the "safe" experience that the average user wants. But if you want to do your own thing and install some other app you found on the internet, you can! You can also run your own apps that you write!

rchaud 3y ago

> I, and a lot of other people, buy iPhones specifically because they are not Androids - it's hard to break them, install something horrible, etc. Sounds like those Mac v PC ads from 20 years ago. Do you think Android users are constantly getting viruses on their phones and having their bank accounts drained? As the NSO spyware has proven, if someone wants to break your phone, they can. Apple's 30% protection racket won't be able to intervene.

askonomm 3y ago
I don't think or care about any of this. But my anecdotal evidence of seeing my elderly family members requiring a lot less help to clean their phones from unwanted spamware/adware that is crippling the device performance has gone down noticeably since the move from Android to iPhone. And I care a lot about that. All that power of Android is great for the Hacker News crowd, not so great for regular people who might not be very tech savvy.

amelius 3y ago

> So why are you pushing for everything to have to be a general purpose computer? Not the parent commenter, but I suppose that the main problem is that there is a duopoly. So either they should be forced to make general-purpose computers (so they can be made to do what the user wants), or there should be more competition, so you can have your locked-down computer, and I can have my general purpose computer.

Vegenoid 3y ago
What is preventing more companies from creating more mobile operating systems? Are they hamstrung by efforts from the duopoly to keep them down? Or is it just hard? If the latter, should government take action to help foster their creation, like tax breaks?
- lukeschlather 3y ago
  Creating an alternative OS isn't the problem, it's that manufacturers like Apple prevent installing alternative operating systems.
  - Vegenoid 3y ago
    What is stopping a company from making a phone that can run other operating systems? I am genuinely curious to hear from people who have domain knowledge, I’m not trying to make a point
    - johnny22 3y ago
      There's nothing stopping a company from making such a phone. The pixel phones from google can probably already boot a regular linux kernel for example if you unlock the bootloader. Then we'd need documentation to be able to actually write drivers. Another part of the problem is how fast the tech is moving outside of the iphones, which makes it harder for anybody to focus on specific hardware.
- miki123211 3y ago

cthaeh 3y ago

[dead]

shkkmo 3y ago

> So why are you pushing for everything to have to be a general purpose computer? They are already general purpose computers that have been locked down. I strongly believe users should be able to own their devices no matter what kind. While users should be able to keep those devices locked down if they choose, they should also be able to unlock them and run any software or OS they choose. I think this applies to consoles just as much as it does to smartphones and tractors. Allowing companies to prevent users from owning their devices puts less tech savy consumers who don't understand the risks at the mercy of the giant corporations.

leereeves 3y ago

Why can't you simply download everything from the App Store and avoid sideloading? If enough people refuse to sideload, developers will continue to provide the App Store as an option. Then you can pay Apple for their curation services if you find those services valuable, and other people won't be forced to pay.

davidjade 3y ago
Why can’t I recommend a device to my elderly parents where I don’t have to worry about social media apps that trick them into installing apps from outside Apple’s App Store? Apps which are then free to ignore Apple’s guidelines and policies and other anti-deceptive policies? Apple’s App Store review may not be perfect but Apple trying to police apps to make them adhere to some guidelines is better than nothing. Remember with Facebook pushed a sneaky VPN as part of their iOS app so they could better track users?
- leereeves 3y ago
  You can't trust Apple to protect your elderly parents from being tricked. There are so many stories of people (even children) who unknowingly spent thousands of dollars on the App Store and in app purchases. Compared to that, a Facebook app with better tracking is trivial.
- yowzadave 3y ago
  > social media apps that trick them into installing apps from outside Apple’s App Store Apple could make this against the terms of service for App Store apps, and ban any apps that violate them. If the sideloading option exists, then Apple should be free to regulate the behavior of in-App Store behavior more strictly.