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> Does Working from Home Boost Productivity Growth? Does it have to? Remote work is great because it reduces carbon emissions, reduces noise pollution, reduce

by Swizec 3y ago

> Does Working from Home Boost Productivity Growth? Does it have to? Remote work is great because it reduces carbon emissions, reduces noise pollution, reduces traffic, increases residential rent revenues, increases work satisfaction, increases hobby engagement, improves child rearing, and generally gives people their time back. If we can get all that and maintain the same productivity, working from home feels very worth it.

twh270 3y ago
Bingo, came here to say this. The goal of our society should not be to make everyone as "productive" as possible, but to make everyone's lives as good as possible.
- leetrout 3y ago
  I am sure it had always been this way but it feels worse these days. Disgusting greed.
  - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
    I believe that the cancer is worsening. It's been too long since we reminded the powerful that their power comes from our consent and can be revoked.
HumblyTossed 3y ago
> Remote work is great because it reduces carbon emissions, reduces noise pollution, reduces traffic, increases residential rent revenues, increases work satisfaction, increases hobby engagement, improves child rearing, and generally gives people their time back. All reasons corporations will crush it. They don't want happy workers, they want fearful ones.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  Keep in mind this appliues to the execs as well - my CEO and CTO are huge advocates for WFH because of this.
  - Swizec 3y ago
    > Keep in mind this appliues to the execs as well One challenge is that many execs see WFH as a privilege of being an exec. The modern corner office is a detached home office overlooking the pool.
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      I can kinda see that but it's just not been true in my experience. My CEO and CTO don't care if you're in the office - they're not in so why would they care? Hell, the CEO only lives a 20 minute walk from the office, and he still doesn't come in!
      - Swizec 3y ago
        I think we’re seeing these attitudes change in real time. Progress execs don’t care as long as the work gets done. Conservative execs see wfh as an affront to status. You have to remember that we’re the first generation since pre-industrial times that even can work from home en masse.
cplusplusfellow 3y ago
Really difficult to comprehend why this is so difficult for people to understand. I recently started sharing a small office on the lake with a friend. I have about 180sf of it to myself. There are boats that cruise by, views are incredible, the environment is fun an inviting -- and I still have my privacy. It's like WFH but 5 feet from the water. I've been a WFH advocate for 22 years, having spend 20 of those working in my own home. I still refuse to go downtown, but I don't mind going to a place like this. I still work about 70% from my house, and 30% from the office. I work from the office when it suits me. Perhaps if they weren't trying to shove us into a singular zip code from a radius 50 miles away, distract and annoy us, force us to deal with traffic, not to mention the personal and monetary expense of it all -- I'd be willing to entertain the idea that an office is "better."
- Mutttttioi 3y ago
  There is one thing the companies might not get but i got: I know now how it is to work remote and no i will not go back to the old. I'm now also willing to accept less money for remote only than before and i also thinking of taking my current money and doing an exit faster if the industry doesn't like that and i will just accept a 'lost' of luxury but i do want to look at nature when i have to work (like your lake side office).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
boredemployee 3y ago
If we consider the very meaning of productivity, I wonder if we really shouldn't be producing less. Increases in productivity have not necessarily led society to greater prosperity, so I think we've been looking at the wrong indicator all this time.
charles_f 3y ago
> Does it have to? To be fair they acknowledge in conclusion that it has other positive effects, but their analysis was focused on productivity. But I agree, title of this analysis is weird, as it assumes that it should impact productivity positively and comes as negative since it doesn't. I am glad they conclude its neutral though. If we were starting to see analysis showing it reduces productivity, you'd bet we'd be back in office in no time
addicted 3y ago
Remote work is great because it reduces carbon emissions/reduces noise pollution/reduces traffic - These are related. There is absolutely no evidence for this. In the U.S. traffic in 2021 was higher than in 2019 despite significant remote work and has only been going higher since. Electricity consumption has been higher as well (which is obvious…heating or cooling an office space with tens or hundreds of people is almost certainly more efficient than heating tens or hundreds of different spaces with 1-2 people in them). increases residential rent revenues - I’m not sure what you mean but if you mean higher rent, I think most would agree that high rent is a massive problem in the U.S. and high rents aren’t a good thing. increases work satisfaction - Yes, the evidence shows that this appears to be the case for a decent majority of people. But the satisfaction numbers may drop with distance with COVID so we need to see if this holds up. increases hobby engagement - I’m not sure there’s any evidence for this. improves child - there is a correlation here but it’s not clear how much of it is a result of the large percentage of women who’ve dropped out of the workforce to care for children since COVID. and generally gives people their time back - The evidence points in the opposite direction. Since the massive increase in WFH people are very clearly stating that work has taken over all hours in their life. Once again, this may be due to the lack of establishment of norms due to the limited time, so it may improve, but the evidence isn’t clear in either direction. Another point is that most of these benefits are a result of avoiding (although it isn’t clear that this is even the case) bad commutes. Which is largely driven by bad infrastructure design which may not be the case in places which don’t have the bad infrastructure design, which would contain a lot of major population centers outside USA/Canada.
vharuck 3y ago
Many things like this remind me of Robert Kennedy's speech at the University of Kansas: >Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/the-kennedy-family/robert-f-kennedy/robert-f-kennedy-speeches/remarks-at-the-university-of-kansas-march-18-1968 https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/the-kennedy-famil...

by Swizec 3y ago

twh270 3y ago

Bingo, came here to say this. The goal of our society should not be to make everyone as "productive" as possible, but to make everyone's lives as good as possible.

leetrout 3y ago
I am sure it had always been this way but it feels worse these days. Disgusting greed.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  I believe that the cancer is worsening. It's been too long since we reminded the powerful that their power comes from our consent and can be revoked.

HumblyTossed 3y ago

> Remote work is great because it reduces carbon emissions, reduces noise pollution, reduces traffic, increases residential rent revenues, increases work satisfaction, increases hobby engagement, improves child rearing, and generally gives people their time back. All reasons corporations will crush it. They don't want happy workers, they want fearful ones.

dukeyukey 3y ago
Keep in mind this appliues to the execs as well - my CEO and CTO are huge advocates for WFH because of this.
- Swizec 3y ago
  > Keep in mind this appliues to the execs as well One challenge is that many execs see WFH as a privilege of being an exec. The modern corner office is a detached home office overlooking the pool.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    I can kinda see that but it's just not been true in my experience. My CEO and CTO don't care if you're in the office - they're not in so why would they care? Hell, the CEO only lives a 20 minute walk from the office, and he still doesn't come in!
    - Swizec 3y ago
      I think we’re seeing these attitudes change in real time. Progress execs don’t care as long as the work gets done. Conservative execs see wfh as an affront to status. You have to remember that we’re the first generation since pre-industrial times that even can work from home en masse.

cplusplusfellow 3y ago

Really difficult to comprehend why this is so difficult for people to understand. I recently started sharing a small office on the lake with a friend. I have about 180sf of it to myself. There are boats that cruise by, views are incredible, the environment is fun an inviting -- and I still have my privacy. It's like WFH but 5 feet from the water. I've been a WFH advocate for 22 years, having spend 20 of those working in my own home. I still refuse to go downtown, but I don't mind going to a place like this. I still work about 70% from my house, and 30% from the office. I work from the office when it suits me. Perhaps if they weren't trying to shove us into a singular zip code from a radius 50 miles away, distract and annoy us, force us to deal with traffic, not to mention the personal and monetary expense of it all -- I'd be willing to entertain the idea that an office is "better."

Mutttttioi 3y ago
There is one thing the companies might not get but i got: I know now how it is to work remote and no i will not go back to the old. I'm now also willing to accept less money for remote only than before and i also thinking of taking my current money and doing an exit faster if the industry doesn't like that and i will just accept a 'lost' of luxury but i do want to look at nature when i have to work (like your lake side office).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

boredemployee 3y ago

If we consider the very meaning of productivity, I wonder if we really shouldn't be producing less. Increases in productivity have not necessarily led society to greater prosperity, so I think we've been looking at the wrong indicator all this time.

charles_f 3y ago

> Does it have to? To be fair they acknowledge in conclusion that it has other positive effects, but their analysis was focused on productivity. But I agree, title of this analysis is weird, as it assumes that it should impact productivity positively and comes as negative since it doesn't. I am glad they conclude its neutral though. If we were starting to see analysis showing it reduces productivity, you'd bet we'd be back in office in no time

addicted 3y ago

Remote work is great because it reduces carbon emissions/reduces noise pollution/reduces traffic - These are related. There is absolutely no evidence for this. In the U.S. traffic in 2021 was higher than in 2019 despite significant remote work and has only been going higher since. Electricity consumption has been higher as well (which is obvious…heating or cooling an office space with tens or hundreds of people is almost certainly more efficient than heating tens or hundreds of different spaces with 1-2 people in them). increases residential rent revenues - I’m not sure what you mean but if you mean higher rent, I think most would agree that high rent is a massive problem in the U.S. and high rents aren’t a good thing. increases work satisfaction - Yes, the evidence shows that this appears to be the case for a decent majority of people. But the satisfaction numbers may drop with distance with COVID so we need to see if this holds up. increases hobby engagement - I’m not sure there’s any evidence for this. improves child - there is a correlation here but it’s not clear how much of it is a result of the large percentage of women who’ve dropped out of the workforce to care for children since COVID. and generally gives people their time back - The evidence points in the opposite direction. Since the massive increase in WFH people are very clearly stating that work has taken over all hours in their life. Once again, this may be due to the lack of establishment of norms due to the limited time, so it may improve, but the evidence isn’t clear in either direction. Another point is that most of these benefits are a result of avoiding (although it isn’t clear that this is even the case) bad commutes. Which is largely driven by bad infrastructure design which may not be the case in places which don’t have the bad infrastructure design, which would contain a lot of major population centers outside USA/Canada.

vharuck 3y ago

Many things like this remind me of Robert Kennedy's speech at the University of Kansas: >Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/the-kennedy-family/robert-f-kennedy/robert-f-kennedy-speeches/remarks-at-the-university-of-kansas-march-18-1968 https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/the-kennedy-famil...