4 ms·

This last quote just showcases a few people’s ignorance (at a minimum the author, the editor, and the person being quoted) of the fact that nobody needs a “char

by natch 3y ago

This last quote just showcases a few people’s ignorance (at a minimum the author, the editor, and the person being quoted) of the fact that nobody needs a “charging station” at home. All you need is an outlet and a charging cable.

mikestew 3y ago
I have to assume you either don’t drive much, or don’t actually own an electric car. Those are the only explanations I have for making such an inaccurate (I hesitate to quote the word “ignorant“) statement. — Owner of an EV that would take days to charge on 120V
- _ea1k 3y ago
  I used an EV for years with a 120V. It also would "take days to charge", but 12 hours would net ~24%. It is surprisingly usable, especially if there is a nearby DCFC bottom charge at if you ever get a little low. Of course, there are caveats. If it is cold and the vehicle has to be charged at the street, charge times will be much longer. But he's right that people often underestimate the usefulness of L1 charging, even though it would literally take days. Coincidentally, in this thread we have people talking about a car that ran out at the airport and required a tow. L1 is perfect for airport parking.
  - joezydeco 3y ago
    If the vehicle is cold soaked and only has a minimal amount of charge left, won't most of it be consumed by the EV trying to preheat the battery? Seems like you're then trapped in a corner case that you can't get out of: not enough energy to allow for any kind of charge at all.
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      Yes, and it sounds like this is exactly what happened in some cases. People would charge hunt until they were out, wait in line for hours, then get to the unit with a cold soaked battery. Even if the charger is working perfectly, the first 30 minutes might be spent just running the battery heater. It might even be worse with rear drive model 3, which unfortunately might also be a big part of the Uber rental fleet. It is a really odd situation, so most people would likely be seeing it for the first time.
      - natch 3y ago
        No what happened in the case on the news is a charging station was malfunctioning but did not report itself to the system as such. If it has been in operation, there would have been no problem charging in the cold.
        joezydeco 3y ago
        This is a video from last year. It shows the cold soak but also shows that maybe the car itself won't latch to the NACS connector? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-c8AUeKs5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-c8AUeKs5c
        _ea1k 3y ago
        Yeah, that's the video that I was thinking of that explicitly tested it. It usually isn't a thing that happens in the real world. The last couple of days have been different. People have left their cars in the parking lot for hours, which effectively is what OOS did in their test.
        joezydeco 3y ago
        Seems like all the Superchargers in Chicago were having trouble as well: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chicago-area-superchargers-failing-in-cold.319666/page-2#post-8026909 https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chicago-area-superch... And then you have a cascade of drivers going from charger to charger looking for an open plug.
    - natch 3y ago
      Preheating is not an absolute necessity for charging. It is done because it helps the charge go faster.
      - _ea1k 3y ago
        True, but in an extreme case, the battery may not take a charge at all without being warmed up. This may take 30+ minutes if it is extremely cold soaked.
        natch 3y ago
        If we’re going to extreme cases, even worse, the battery won’t work at all if you disconnect it or grind it into small bits. Or, you could take care of your car as recommended and if a battery preheat will help, use scheduled departure features and plug it in if needed and possible.
        _ea1k 3y ago
        I can see what you are getting that there. The problem is that Chicago actually caused a pretty extreme case, mostly due to infrastructure issues. Cars waiting in line for hours at low states of charge effectively couldn't precondition. I've never seen this scenario happen in the real world, but I guess we've found one weird edge case where it can happen.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  A North American outlet can provide a continuous power of around 1440W. The comment could be someone in Europe (etc) where "an outlet" means 220-240V, with a continuous power of around 2500-3500W, depending on the regulations in that country.
- dobs 3y ago
  But most people also aren't draining their battery every day. I live in Toronto, own a Kona EV, and am lucky enough to have a garage. I've literally never needed anything more than 120V except when going on >300km car trips. Any daily commute that wouldn't be handled by an overnight charge at 120V probably isn't a commute I'd put up with even with an ICE vehicle.
- natch 3y ago
  We own three BEVs for quite some years now and no ICE cars and I drive a lot so your assumptions are wrong right at the start. You seem to be making a common mistake of thinking that one always needs to charge from empty to full in every charge. Not so. A common scenario would be arriving home with 190 miles of range left on the battery, and plugging in. After a few minutes, you have to go out again, no problem. Eventually you come home for the night with 160 miles of charge left, and plug in again. Overnight you get let’s say (super slow case) 40 miles and now you’re at 200 or more. Not the problem you are envisioning. You may also be forgetting that public fast chargers which can be used in a pinch do exist. 220 is also an option so let’s not restrict ourselves to 110/120. But if we must talk about 110, I’ll point out that we survived just fine for 2 years with 2 BEVs sharing (alternating cars) ONE 110 outlet in an apartment after laboring, like many mistakenly do, under the false assumption that you still carry that it was not an option, for an entire year, before we realized that it was totally doable. It worked great. We also used fast chargers when needed but they were not needed very often. Ignorance is definitely a thing, but it works both ways.

by natch 3y ago

mikestew 3y ago

I have to assume you either don’t drive much, or don’t actually own an electric car. Those are the only explanations I have for making such an inaccurate (I hesitate to quote the word “ignorant“) statement. — Owner of an EV that would take days to charge on 120V

_ea1k 3y ago
I used an EV for years with a 120V. It also would "take days to charge", but 12 hours would net ~24%. It is surprisingly usable, especially if there is a nearby DCFC bottom charge at if you ever get a little low. Of course, there are caveats. If it is cold and the vehicle has to be charged at the street, charge times will be much longer. But he's right that people often underestimate the usefulness of L1 charging, even though it would literally take days. Coincidentally, in this thread we have people talking about a car that ran out at the airport and required a tow. L1 is perfect for airport parking.
- joezydeco 3y ago
  If the vehicle is cold soaked and only has a minimal amount of charge left, won't most of it be consumed by the EV trying to preheat the battery? Seems like you're then trapped in a corner case that you can't get out of: not enough energy to allow for any kind of charge at all.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Yes, and it sounds like this is exactly what happened in some cases. People would charge hunt until they were out, wait in line for hours, then get to the unit with a cold soaked battery. Even if the charger is working perfectly, the first 30 minutes might be spent just running the battery heater. It might even be worse with rear drive model 3, which unfortunately might also be a big part of the Uber rental fleet. It is a really odd situation, so most people would likely be seeing it for the first time.
    - natch 3y ago
      No what happened in the case on the news is a charging station was malfunctioning but did not report itself to the system as such. If it has been in operation, there would have been no problem charging in the cold.
      - joezydeco 3y ago
        This is a video from last year. It shows the cold soak but also shows that maybe the car itself won't latch to the NACS connector? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-c8AUeKs5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-c8AUeKs5c
        _ea1k 3y ago
        Yeah, that's the video that I was thinking of that explicitly tested it. It usually isn't a thing that happens in the real world. The last couple of days have been different. People have left their cars in the parking lot for hours, which effectively is what OOS did in their test.
      - joezydeco 3y ago
        Seems like all the Superchargers in Chicago were having trouble as well: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chicago-area-superchargers-failing-in-cold.319666/page-2#post-8026909 https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chicago-area-superch... And then you have a cascade of drivers going from charger to charger looking for an open plug.
  - natch 3y ago
    Preheating is not an absolute necessity for charging. It is done because it helps the charge go faster.
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      True, but in an extreme case, the battery may not take a charge at all without being warmed up. This may take 30+ minutes if it is extremely cold soaked.
      - natch 3y ago
        If we’re going to extreme cases, even worse, the battery won’t work at all if you disconnect it or grind it into small bits. Or, you could take care of your car as recommended and if a battery preheat will help, use scheduled departure features and plug it in if needed and possible.
        _ea1k 3y ago
        I can see what you are getting that there. The problem is that Chicago actually caused a pretty extreme case, mostly due to infrastructure issues. Cars waiting in line for hours at low states of charge effectively couldn't precondition. I've never seen this scenario happen in the real world, but I guess we've found one weird edge case where it can happen.
Symbiote 3y ago
A North American outlet can provide a continuous power of around 1440W. The comment could be someone in Europe (etc) where "an outlet" means 220-240V, with a continuous power of around 2500-3500W, depending on the regulations in that country.
dobs 3y ago
But most people also aren't draining their battery every day. I live in Toronto, own a Kona EV, and am lucky enough to have a garage. I've literally never needed anything more than 120V except when going on >300km car trips. Any daily commute that wouldn't be handled by an overnight charge at 120V probably isn't a commute I'd put up with even with an ICE vehicle.
natch 3y ago
We own three BEVs for quite some years now and no ICE cars and I drive a lot so your assumptions are wrong right at the start. You seem to be making a common mistake of thinking that one always needs to charge from empty to full in every charge. Not so. A common scenario would be arriving home with 190 miles of range left on the battery, and plugging in. After a few minutes, you have to go out again, no problem. Eventually you come home for the night with 160 miles of charge left, and plug in again. Overnight you get let’s say (super slow case) 40 miles and now you’re at 200 or more. Not the problem you are envisioning. You may also be forgetting that public fast chargers which can be used in a pinch do exist. 220 is also an option so let’s not restrict ourselves to 110/120. But if we must talk about 110, I’ll point out that we survived just fine for 2 years with 2 BEVs sharing (alternating cars) ONE 110 outlet in an apartment after laboring, like many mistakenly do, under the false assumption that you still carry that it was not an option, for an entire year, before we realized that it was totally doable. It worked great. We also used fast chargers when needed but they were not needed very often. Ignorance is definitely a thing, but it works both ways.