5 ms·

Let's put things in perspective. In Calgary, and many other cold cities, every apartment's outdoor parking lot has outlets where you plug in your ICE's block he

Let's put things in perspective. In Calgary, and many other cold cities, every apartment's outdoor parking lot has outlets where you plug in your ICE's block heater and battery blanket. Without them, you probably won't start your car this morning. When I lived in Calgary, I sometimes had to spray a can of ether into the carburetor to get my car started.

NDizzle 3y ago
Yes. And then when you left, did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? Did you have stops along the way to add fuel in a reasonable amount of time? Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? I want EVs to be there too, but they just aren't.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  If the car was plugged in before I left, then yes to all three. The first is always true for at least a Tesla and you use the nav. A Tesla knows it's cold outside. If you punch a destination into your nav, it'll tell it what percentage will remain when you get there and it's always accurate. The second is true if you charge the car while it's warm. We travelled from Ottawa to Quebec City in the cold, stopping to charge 3 times, and it always charged quickly. We knew enough to charge before parking the car rather than charging after the car has been parked. The third is true if the car is plugged in and you tell it when you want to leave. It prewarms the cabin & battery.
  - NDizzle 3y ago
    You had to stop 3 times for a 275 mile drive?!
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Yes, my kids can't drive for more than 2 hours without a bathroom break, we never let the battery go below 40% in the winter in case of emergency, and the 3rd one was a charge at the end of the trip (see my answer to the second question).
    - thebruce87m 3y ago
      ICE cars have to go to a gas station every ~500 miles. For some EV owners like me, the trade off in time saved refuelling an ICE car is spent on charging on rare long journeys. I actually save time overall. But each use-case is different.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        I would filled up twice on a trip between Ottawa and Quebec City in a gasoline car in the winter. Never let your tank get below 50% in case of emergency, and there's no such thing as a "destination charger" for ICE's.
        Kon-Peki 3y ago
        In the old days, they used to say that if you let your tank get too low in the winter, you could end up with moisture in the tank. It's probably been a while since that was actually true. It seems that fewer and fewer people actually have any plan at all for emergencies.
        jjav 3y ago
        > I would filled up twice on a trip between Ottawa and Quebec City in a gasoline car in the winter. Why? A 275 mile drive should be easily done in any gas car without stopping. Even my smallest tank car can do ~325 miles, my other cars can do ~425 and ~500 miles on one tank.
        earthling8118 3y ago
        Mine can't even do 200.
        jjav 3y ago
        I'm curious what car is it? I started thinking maybe a sporty car (thus gas tank is not huge) with a huge engine (bad MPG) but couldn't find anything, even a Viper seems to get over 300 miles on the highway. Maybe some Ferrari with particularly bad MPG? Seems the worst is a 812GT, but that has a range of just under 300 miles. So I give up, what is it?
- itishappy 3y ago
  > did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? My ICE almost stranded me during the recent freeze. Conditions affect fuel economy for all vehicles. > Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? This feels like an imagined problem. EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. If you end up off the road during a storm (been there) an EV will last longer for the same fill level. They also tend to heat up faster due to not having to adjust the entire thermal mass of the engine block. I used to leave my heat off in my ol' minivan during most commutes. If there wasn't snow on the windshield for me to clean off while the car warmed up, it wouldn't heat up fast enough.
  - falcolas 3y ago
    > EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. Given that ICEs take advantage of waste heat - which they will have in abundance as long as the engine is running - I disagree. Especially since many EVs still use resistive heating (the F150 Lightning and some Tesla models, for example). And even vehicles with heat pumps will have to use backup resistive heating on really cold days, since they have a lower limit where they can operate.
    - itishappy 3y ago
      > which they will have in abundance as long as the engine is running Right, as long as the engine is running (and warm). It's still inefficient, however, as a significant portion of the heat still leaves with the exhaust. An EV can add a resistor inside the cabin for 100% conversion efficiency, and can power it for longer than a tank of gas will allow an ICE to idle. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. "Strong, reliable heat" is not a clear differentiator.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    > EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. Citation needed. Are EVs using different cabin heating to ICEs? My Audi will recirculate waste engine and coolant heat to the cabin for up to 20 minutes (like if you're in a grocery store) with nothing but a fan. > They also tend to heat up faster due to not having to adjust the entire thermal mass of the engine block. An ICE doesn't heat the engine block? Modern ICEs also use auxiliary heating on cold starts. I can have warm air out of the cabin vents within ~30s even on a 20F day (not horribly cold, granted, but I'm talking properly warm air).
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Fairbanks in Alaska is the same. In Siberia they have huge car gloves that you can envelop your car in, also since they don’t have a lot of outlets you just leave your car running.

NDizzle 3y ago

Yes. And then when you left, did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? Did you have stops along the way to add fuel in a reasonable amount of time? Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? I want EVs to be there too, but they just aren't.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
If the car was plugged in before I left, then yes to all three. The first is always true for at least a Tesla and you use the nav. A Tesla knows it's cold outside. If you punch a destination into your nav, it'll tell it what percentage will remain when you get there and it's always accurate. The second is true if you charge the car while it's warm. We travelled from Ottawa to Quebec City in the cold, stopping to charge 3 times, and it always charged quickly. We knew enough to charge before parking the car rather than charging after the car has been parked. The third is true if the car is plugged in and you tell it when you want to leave. It prewarms the cabin & battery.
- NDizzle 3y ago
  You had to stop 3 times for a 275 mile drive?!
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Yes, my kids can't drive for more than 2 hours without a bathroom break, we never let the battery go below 40% in the winter in case of emergency, and the 3rd one was a charge at the end of the trip (see my answer to the second question).
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    ICE cars have to go to a gas station every ~500 miles. For some EV owners like me, the trade off in time saved refuelling an ICE car is spent on charging on rare long journeys. I actually save time overall. But each use-case is different.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      I would filled up twice on a trip between Ottawa and Quebec City in a gasoline car in the winter. Never let your tank get below 50% in case of emergency, and there's no such thing as a "destination charger" for ICE's.
      - Kon-Peki 3y ago
        In the old days, they used to say that if you let your tank get too low in the winter, you could end up with moisture in the tank. It's probably been a while since that was actually true. It seems that fewer and fewer people actually have any plan at all for emergencies.
      - jjav 3y ago
        > I would filled up twice on a trip between Ottawa and Quebec City in a gasoline car in the winter. Why? A 275 mile drive should be easily done in any gas car without stopping. Even my smallest tank car can do ~325 miles, my other cars can do ~425 and ~500 miles on one tank.
        earthling8118 3y ago
        Mine can't even do 200.
        jjav 3y ago
        I'm curious what car is it? I started thinking maybe a sporty car (thus gas tank is not huge) with a huge engine (bad MPG) but couldn't find anything, even a Viper seems to get over 300 miles on the highway. Maybe some Ferrari with particularly bad MPG? Seems the worst is a 812GT, but that has a range of just under 300 miles. So I give up, what is it?
itishappy 3y ago
> did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? My ICE almost stranded me during the recent freeze. Conditions affect fuel economy for all vehicles. > Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? This feels like an imagined problem. EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. If you end up off the road during a storm (been there) an EV will last longer for the same fill level. They also tend to heat up faster due to not having to adjust the entire thermal mass of the engine block. I used to leave my heat off in my ol' minivan during most commutes. If there wasn't snow on the windshield for me to clean off while the car warmed up, it wouldn't heat up fast enough.
- falcolas 3y ago
  > EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. Given that ICEs take advantage of waste heat - which they will have in abundance as long as the engine is running - I disagree. Especially since many EVs still use resistive heating (the F150 Lightning and some Tesla models, for example). And even vehicles with heat pumps will have to use backup resistive heating on really cold days, since they have a lower limit where they can operate.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    > which they will have in abundance as long as the engine is running Right, as long as the engine is running (and warm). It's still inefficient, however, as a significant portion of the heat still leaves with the exhaust. An EV can add a resistor inside the cabin for 100% conversion efficiency, and can power it for longer than a tank of gas will allow an ICE to idle. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. "Strong, reliable heat" is not a clear differentiator.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. Citation needed. Are EVs using different cabin heating to ICEs? My Audi will recirculate waste engine and coolant heat to the cabin for up to 20 minutes (like if you're in a grocery store) with nothing but a fan. > They also tend to heat up faster due to not having to adjust the entire thermal mass of the engine block. An ICE doesn't heat the engine block? Modern ICEs also use auxiliary heating on cold starts. I can have warm air out of the cabin vents within ~30s even on a 20F day (not horribly cold, granted, but I'm talking properly warm air).

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Fairbanks in Alaska is the same. In Siberia they have huge car gloves that you can envelop your car in, also since they don’t have a lot of outlets you just leave your car running.