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Tell HN: How an elderly couple I know had their computer 'stop working'

• gitgud 3y ago
  I chuckled reading this… would restarting the Mac re-enable the Bluetooth?
  • slowwriter 3y ago
    :) Well, add that to the list of things that didn't prevent or solve the problem, unfortunately. Also, I was thinking: If I was in that situation I might SSH into it from a different machine. Yeah, good luck with that to the elderly couple.
    • addandsubtract 3y ago
      You have to enable remote SSH in the settings, first.
      • pwg 3y ago
        And actually have a second computer -- "elderly couple" quite highly implies that this computer is likely the only one they have.
        • slowwriter 3y ago
          For sure. I did say ‘if it had happened to me’, though. And I do happen to have SSH enabled on both of my machines.
  • tambourine_man 3y ago
    Perhaps. IIRC, if a Mac starts and no keyboard is attached or paired it will show a Bluetooth searching dialog box
    • slowwriter 3y ago
      Interesting. Didn’t know, will have to check that.
  • Dalewyn 3y ago
    Yes. One of the things I absolutely fucking loathe on my MacBook is it will always turn on the Bluetooth upon hard (re)boot. I never use Bluetooth; I turn it off for a reason. It literally does not matter what I tell the operating system to do: The tooth must blue, for that is the One Apple Way(tm).
    • HWR_14 3y ago
      Although that sounds annoying, clearly the reason for that behavior is this entire thread. If the old couple had not been zooming at the time, they would have rebooted and that would have fixed things.
    • slowwriter 3y ago
      If I had known that rebooting would re-enable Bluetooth, that would’ve been a good fix in this particular situation. Although I do see how it can be annoying under normal circumstances.
• bravetraveler 3y ago
  Hah! Fun times. A prompt for 'N devices are paired, are you sure?' is a good idea If their car is like mine, plug the laptop in there. For some reason, plugging my phone in for Android Auto also forces my Bluetooth on.
• tnbp 3y ago
  Surely, this computer must have come with a non-BT keyboard and/or mouse, though?
  • esprehn 3y ago
    An iMac comes with all wireless peripherals, but the charging cables for the devices can be used for using them wired in this situation.
    • slowwriter 3y ago
      Not the Magic Mouse, though, unless you’re very skilled with your fingers.
  • wkjagt 3y ago
    Maybe it did but they didn’t keep it?
• lotsofpulp 3y ago
  This website claims turning the computer off and on will prompt macOS to search for Bluetooth keyboard/mouse if there isn’t one connected. https://macreports.com/how-to-turn-on-bluetooth-on-your-mac-without-a-keyboard-mouse-or-trackpad/ https://macreports.com/how-to-turn-on-bluetooth-on-your-mac-... I don’t understand how one is supposed to do this without a keyboard or mice though: > If you are working on documents, save them, and close them.
  • slowwriter 3y ago
    Someone else pointed this out, I didn’t know. Although, yes, if they needed to close any prompts that might have been a problem.
• addandsubtract 3y ago
  Would connecting a phone via USB work? Is there an app that lets you use your phone as a mouse / keyboard via USB?
  • londons_explore 3y ago
    The USB port on phones is kinda locked down, and without rooting your phone I don't think there is any API to emulate an arbitrary device like a keyboard/mouse.
    • grotorea 3y ago
      KDE Connect has a feature to use the phone as peripheral keyboard/mouse IIRC.
• SpaceL10n 3y ago
  Great question. Something like, "This computer has no input devices. Check your keyboard and mouse." Seems like pretty important use case for a personal computer targeting people who may not have grown up around computers or even finished high school. As a user of personal computers, I should be able to easily determine if my computer is configured for basic use.
  • veeti 3y ago
    Reminds me of the classic BIOS error message: "Keyboard not found. Press F1 to continue"
  • nightowl_games 3y ago
    That error message is very poor. Check your keyboard and mouse? I don't even know what you mean by that. This computer has no input devices? Well that is simply false. The user is currently using an input device when they see this message. Here's a better message: "Warning! Disabling Bluetooth will disconnect your wireless keyboard and wireless mouse. You will need to use a wired keyboard and wired mouse to re-enable Bluetooth. Are you sure you want to disable Bluetooth? Cancel. Disable Bluetooth. " There should probably be a hardware button or switch to enable Bluetooth.
    • cabalamat 3y ago
      > The user is currently using an input device when they see this message. Surely they are using an output device, the screen?
      • roonyh 3y ago
        They need to use an input device like a mouse to disable bluetooth. Which they are about to not be able to use. But when they are seeing the message they are still using it.
    • teeray 3y ago
      > Check your keyboard and mouse Check engine light? I checked! The engine is still there!
• cassianoleal 3y ago
  Surely they charge the keyboard and mouse. Wouldn't at least one of them be charged via a USB cable? Plugging that to the computer would turn the peripheral into a wired USB one.
  • r0ckarong 3y ago
    Plenty of cheap peripherals still run on disposable batteries.
    • woodrowbarlow 3y ago
      "cheap" peripherals like the $180 xbox elite controller... grumble grumble...
      • Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
        User replaceable batteries could be sold as a feature these days. Would people be pissed to see them just being double or triple-A?
    • toast0 3y ago
      Externally rechargable AAs are great. I don't have to have specific charging stations for everything, and when a battery does wear out, it's easy to replace. I haven't been super happy with the rechargable AAAs I've used, so I might prefer specific batteries for smaller items. But most video game controllers or presentation remotes or wireless keyboard and mouse have plenty of room for one or two AAs
  • ericswpark 3y ago
    If they had Apple input devices (Magic Keyboard, touchpad, etc) they don't work over the wire.
    • cassianoleal 3y ago
      Is that so? I have a Magic Trackpad with a Lightning connection and I was under the impression that it did work over the cable. Thinking about it though, I'm not sure I ever validated that.
• pritambaral 3y ago
  A remote access tool with a client pre-configured could fix this. E.g., if this happened to me, I'd use KDE Connect since I already have it paired.
  • 999900000999 3y ago
    You still need another device to remote in. Odds are you could just zoom from that device
    • Piskvorrr 3y ago
      ...zoom or another meeting system would require the other side to accept the connection. Using...what? OTOH, low-level remote access usually lacks any UI (such as the mentioned KDE Connect's Remote input, which mimics another input device). But again, this requires some planning beforehand. Even "ssh in, install a remote viewer and use that" would require SSH to be there and reachable from outside (as NAT is likely). In the end, this is no different from "just grab the wired mouse and plug it in. Which one? Well the one you prepared beforehand."
• fma 3y ago
  I've never liked using bluetooth peripherals and this gives me another reason. USB dongle for life, I guess.
  • bigallen 3y ago
    Wait, are you saying you just trade the wireless functionality from the built in Bluetooth to an external Bluetooth dongle?
    • dontlaugh 3y ago
      The dongle is definitely not using Bluetooth. Wireless peripherals with USB dongles generally have their own custom radio protocol, for better or worse.
      • nightowl_games 3y ago
        Usually it's for better
      • retrac 3y ago
        Before later revisions of Bluetooth with ultra-low-power modes, a mouse using Bluetooth was considerably more power-hungry than dedicated radio interfaces -- short battery life.
        • RulerOf 3y ago
          I had one of those, a Logitech MX1000. It needed to charge multiple times per week in a cradle and always indicated the battery life when it was moved around. It would die in the middle of playing DotA, so I had two and would pause the game with the admin commands on my host bot for just long enough to pull the waiting one out of the dock and press the pairing buttons. Fun times lol.
    • nicolaslem 3y ago
      Proprietary wireless dongles for keyboards and mice are often not Bluetooth.
• davidsergey 3y ago
  I had a similar problem with my Windows gaming PC after I upgraded CPU cooler. Motherboard/BIOS decided that I've upgraded my CPU and it would not proceed without me pressing "F2" key on my keyboard. Obviously my BT keyboard did not yet connect to the computer, since it was before BT drivers loaded or something, so I had to buy a wired keyboard to press "F2" and proceed. Would be nice to have 2-3 buttons right on a case to interact with BIOS. Or you know…load BT drivers.
  • londons_explore 3y ago
    I think some BIOS's do have support for bluetooth keyboards. There is a crazy thing where windows will send the bios the necessary encryption keys, so while the BIOS cannot pair with a keyboard, it can use a previously paired one. Doubt it works with linux, and I bet it depends on using the exact right config even on windows.
• philo23 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure macOS does warn you that turning Bluetooth off will disconnect your keyboard/mouse/trackpad, if thats the only input device you’ve got connected. Not sure when it was introduced but it’s definitely there on the latest version because I bumped into it the other day.
  • mrits 3y ago
    Never thought of this but this sounds like the kind of thing that would happen to me right before an important meeting.
  • slowwriter 3y ago
    Interesting! If that’s the case, great! But I believe the couple in question is on an older iMac not upgradeable to the latest version of macOS, so they would still be out of luck.
• ehto 3y ago
  I have done exactly this on an iMac. Thankfully a wired mouse was in the same building. But I was shocked, reflecting on how easily I had suddenly made my computer almost totally inoperable, by accident, without a warning.
• cabalamat 3y ago
  I always use a wired keyboard/mouse. Less to go wrong.
• graemep 3y ago
  One lesson is that wired devices are better when they are practical. Less to go wrong - no dependence on something that might get turned off, no batteries going flat. You even get a smaller attack surface.
  • missjellyfish 3y ago
    Exactly the reason why I am rocking a Broadcast Headset (Beyerdynamic DT-797PV, to be specific) for work calls. It has XLR for the microphone and 1/4" for the headphones. All goes into a cheap Behringer UMC22. Never had any problems with Teams, Zoom, ... you name it, my colleagues using bluetooth have constant issues, be it with connectivity, audio quality or both. Also since I wear glasses all day everyday I will never use any headphones that don't have velours earpads. So much more comfortable than faux leather.
• rini17 3y ago
  Could work same as video settings since ever. You have several seconds to confirm your screen still works and if you don't confirm, the settings automatically revert.
• beAbU 3y ago
  This is the 2020s equivalent of setting the display resolution beyond what your monitor could handle back in the Win2k days. Back then it did not revert the settings back after 20 seconds!
  • girishso 3y ago
    That reminds me of setting unsupported display resolution back in the mid 90s on Windows 95, resulted in blank screen. Luckily my brother and I knew the UI by heart, rebooted the machine -> opened "Start" menu -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Display -> Move to Settings tab -> Change to working resolution -> Apply -> Reboot - all on the blank screen using keyboard, it worked though!
  • jackhack 3y ago
    Yet, things could be worse. Back in the 80s & 90s it was possible to select a resolution/refresh frequency that would permanently damage (e.g. destroy) a CRT (cathode ray tube) monitor.
• Angostura 3y ago
  > So now they literally have to go into town to get a USB mouse. We had a good laugh about that. They just need to turn it off at the wall and turn it back on again, I believe - it will look for keyboard and mouse
• majiy 3y ago
  Reminds me: After moving, my PC (desktop) and mouse where available, but the keyboard still in one of many unopened boxes. Had to quickly check something, should be doable with mouse only. Only to be greeted by the BIOS message: "Keyboard error or no keyboard present, press F9 to continue".
• tzs 3y ago
  > So why doesn't macOS warn the user before you disconnect all your peripherals? What version of MacOS and what specific Mac and what Bluetooth mouse and keyboard? On my 2017 iMac running 13 (Ventura) which has a Bluetooth keyboard but a USB mouse trying to turn of Bluetooth brings up a dialog that asks if I'm sure and warns me that if I turn it off I won't be able to control the Mac with a Bluetooth mouse, keyboard, or trackpad, and gives me options to cancel or proceed to turn off Bluetooth. On my 2023 Mac Studio running 14.2.1 (Sonoma) on which both the keyboard and mouse are Bluetooth it gives me a dialog that says in bold "You cannot control your computer if you turn Bluetooth off at this time", and below that in non-bold repeats that with "as you would lose your input devices" added. It only has an "OK" button which dismisses the dialog, leaving Bluetooth enabled. The Bluetooth keyboards on both of those are Apple Magic Keyboards, and the Bluetooth mouse on the Mac Studio is an Apple Magic Mouse. I wonder if the warnings only happen if you are using at least one Apple input device?
  • slowwriter 3y ago
    I will have to ask them for specifics, but I believe they are on an older iMac (pre 2017) that cannot run Ventura or newer. If they are running Ventura, they may have simply overlooked the dialog completely, but I'm leaning more towards a version of macOS that didn't have the dialog.
• rograndom 3y ago
  My wife has a similar problem with the iMac supplied wireless mouse. She'll go to click-drag something and catch the power switch, which is on the underside of the mouse, on the mousepad turning off the mouse. This has happened maybe four times in the two years we've had it, but everytime it's been "The computer crashed!" and gets power-cycled, losing work. Of course it's still "crashed" when it comes back up because the mouse is turned off. This post makes me feel like I should put a sticky note on there to check the mouse next time.
• sircastor 3y ago
  If the keyboard is an Apple Keyboard (likely because it's an iMac) connecting it to the computer via the included charging cable will associate it with the computer. I'm not certain, but I'm willing to guess plugging in either the keyboard or the mouse will reenable bluetooth so the peripherals can be used (the mouse cannot be used while plugged in as I recall the design doesn't allow it.)