4 ms·

It’s a symbiotic relationship Yes, exactly. It's symbiotic because Apple needs apps to sell iPhones in the first place. Apple is already getting their cut of t

by jzl 3y ago

It’s a symbiotic relationship Yes, exactly. It's symbiotic because Apple needs apps to sell iPhones in the first place. Apple is already getting their cut of the symbiotic relationship by selling their massively profitable iPhone hardware, full stop. Any chance you remember the first year of the iPhone when there were no third party apps? Other than being a good phone, it was basically just a technological novelty, and that was about it. Third party apps are literally what give value to the iPhone (and other iOS devices).

aspenmayer 3y ago
Cydia was live on iOS before Apple's App Store. Which is to say, I agree.
ankit219 3y ago
I have never fully agreed with this premise. On the face of it, yes apps help people stay on the store. But at the same time, Apple does come up with many good apps. Comparing it to the first iPhone is probably valid. They saw the writing on the wall and opened the gates, but could have easily chosen the other way of doing it themselves. No one wins in this scenario - nor the devs, nor the users, nor Apple. But it's not as clear as "Apple needs apps to sell iPhones in the first place". Idly wondering, say you don't download any third party app and neither does anyone. You can still surf the internet for the most part. You can still connect with others via FaceTime/iMessage. You can still check mails etc. Things you won't be able to do is play games, go on dates, browse tiktok, book a cab (though all that is possible through safari but not a great experience). A caveat here: The original 30% was on infinitely reproducible digital goods only. Which is 80-90% gaming skins and artifacts and digital subscriptions. Don't know if that is still the case.
jrowen 3y ago
It's symbiotic because Apple needs apps to sell iPhones in the first place. And developers need a solid platform with users willing to pay money. I feel like you have the wrong answer to the chicken and egg problem. The first iPhone was a marvel to pretty much everyone, and blew everything else at the time out of the water. I don't recall much sentiment of people being disappointed about the lack of apps, because there was no reason to expect that at that point. Just being able to use a lot of the web like you would on a computer was a massive leap from a RAZR or whatever. This is not to defend the 30% tax or anything, but I don't think it does any good to downplay the value they've built. The elephant in the room with your argument is that, if it were true, app developers would simply flock to Android and Apple would be forced to course-correct.
- pentae 3y ago
  People seem to think that the customer exists because of the iPhone app store, when it's often usually the other way around. Other than a small handful of apps being promoted for free in the app store, the majority of businesses have to spend very real, very expensive advertising dollars or offer a unique product to attract customers. If you have your own product your customers want but they just happen to have an iPhone, you're now forced to pay the maker of their device 30% off the top of your gross revenues like some kind of Mafia. This same Mafia does everything they can to make sure that web/Safari experience is as poor of an experience as possible so that users prefer native apps delivered through the app store. Imagine if you sold expensive CAD software through your own sales team and advertising efforts completely offline but because some of those users were on Windows they have to get it through the Windows store and 30% of your topline revenue went to Microsoft? Because of the way online marketing/advertising works with competitive bidding in a lot of cases I would bet that Apple is making more margin than the developers of the apps are. Your competitor who doesn't have to pay a 30% Mafia shakedown fee for their product will be able to outcompete you on clicks every time.
  - jrowen 3y ago
    This same Mafia does everything they can to make sure that web/Safari experience is as poor of an experience as possible so that users prefer native apps delivered through the app store. Can you expand on this? I prefer to use the web when I can, and every time I've begrudgingly downloaded an app, it's the service itself that was actively pushing me away from their poor/hamstrung web client. I'm still left with the impression that users are staying there and developers jump through the hoops because it's just that good. That doesn't mean it's right, but - that's Capitalism, baby! Also, the MS of yore would have absolutely done that if they thought they could get away with it, and definitely engaged in more than their fair share of unsavory tactics.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  > The first iPhone was a marvel to pretty much everyone IIRC its sales figures weren’t that great though. Of course from Apple’s perspective it was more of a prototype than the actual final product. > Just being able to use a lot of the web like you would on a computer was a massive leap from a RAZR IMHO not having 3G basically turned it into a toy.. also comparing it to a consumer flip-phones isn’t that fair. You you had touschscreen/stylus “smartphones” from SonyEricsson, Nokia etc. which weren’t that awful at the time (of course the UX was inferior after it actually became possible to the internet on your iPhone when the 3G was released).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by jzl 3y ago

aspenmayer 3y ago

Cydia was live on iOS before Apple's App Store. Which is to say, I agree.

ankit219 3y ago

I have never fully agreed with this premise. On the face of it, yes apps help people stay on the store. But at the same time, Apple does come up with many good apps. Comparing it to the first iPhone is probably valid. They saw the writing on the wall and opened the gates, but could have easily chosen the other way of doing it themselves. No one wins in this scenario - nor the devs, nor the users, nor Apple. But it's not as clear as "Apple needs apps to sell iPhones in the first place". Idly wondering, say you don't download any third party app and neither does anyone. You can still surf the internet for the most part. You can still connect with others via FaceTime/iMessage. You can still check mails etc. Things you won't be able to do is play games, go on dates, browse tiktok, book a cab (though all that is possible through safari but not a great experience). A caveat here: The original 30% was on infinitely reproducible digital goods only. Which is 80-90% gaming skins and artifacts and digital subscriptions. Don't know if that is still the case.

jrowen 3y ago

It's symbiotic because Apple needs apps to sell iPhones in the first place. And developers need a solid platform with users willing to pay money. I feel like you have the wrong answer to the chicken and egg problem. The first iPhone was a marvel to pretty much everyone, and blew everything else at the time out of the water. I don't recall much sentiment of people being disappointed about the lack of apps, because there was no reason to expect that at that point. Just being able to use a lot of the web like you would on a computer was a massive leap from a RAZR or whatever. This is not to defend the 30% tax or anything, but I don't think it does any good to downplay the value they've built. The elephant in the room with your argument is that, if it were true, app developers would simply flock to Android and Apple would be forced to course-correct.

pentae 3y ago
People seem to think that the customer exists because of the iPhone app store, when it's often usually the other way around. Other than a small handful of apps being promoted for free in the app store, the majority of businesses have to spend very real, very expensive advertising dollars or offer a unique product to attract customers. If you have your own product your customers want but they just happen to have an iPhone, you're now forced to pay the maker of their device 30% off the top of your gross revenues like some kind of Mafia. This same Mafia does everything they can to make sure that web/Safari experience is as poor of an experience as possible so that users prefer native apps delivered through the app store. Imagine if you sold expensive CAD software through your own sales team and advertising efforts completely offline but because some of those users were on Windows they have to get it through the Windows store and 30% of your topline revenue went to Microsoft? Because of the way online marketing/advertising works with competitive bidding in a lot of cases I would bet that Apple is making more margin than the developers of the apps are. Your competitor who doesn't have to pay a 30% Mafia shakedown fee for their product will be able to outcompete you on clicks every time.
- jrowen 3y ago
  This same Mafia does everything they can to make sure that web/Safari experience is as poor of an experience as possible so that users prefer native apps delivered through the app store. Can you expand on this? I prefer to use the web when I can, and every time I've begrudgingly downloaded an app, it's the service itself that was actively pushing me away from their poor/hamstrung web client. I'm still left with the impression that users are staying there and developers jump through the hoops because it's just that good. That doesn't mean it's right, but - that's Capitalism, baby! Also, the MS of yore would have absolutely done that if they thought they could get away with it, and definitely engaged in more than their fair share of unsavory tactics.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
> The first iPhone was a marvel to pretty much everyone IIRC its sales figures weren’t that great though. Of course from Apple’s perspective it was more of a prototype than the actual final product. > Just being able to use a lot of the web like you would on a computer was a massive leap from a RAZR IMHO not having 3G basically turned it into a toy.. also comparing it to a consumer flip-phones isn’t that fair. You you had touschscreen/stylus “smartphones” from SonyEricsson, Nokia etc. which weren’t that awful at the time (of course the UX was inferior after it actually became possible to the internet on your iPhone when the 3G was released).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]