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Why is this being downvoted? This is totally possible, though I'm not saying it happened. Is it because it's speculative?

by Sl1mb0 3y ago

janalsncm 3y ago
Hard to say why it was downvoted but I can say it’s a highly unlikely scenario. You typically need a security clearance to view classified info. Further, many employees at OpenAI may not even be US citizens, and even if they are, many others aren’t super enthusiastic about giving the Pentagon new toys to use.
- maxglute 3y ago
  OpenAI had/has 57 Chinese talent [1], they're probably getting the boot if OpenAI picks up Pentagon contracts. https://macropolo2.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/gpt_fig2_new-768x445.png https://macropolo2.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/20...
  - lumost 3y ago
    For dual-use tech, its relatively common to have a small "government" division alongside the much larger commercial division. If the only difference for government is fine tuning data/DoD servers - it shouldn't cost OpenAI much to support.
    - maxglute 3y ago
      People are escalating AI to strategic/end of world tier of dual use tech. Questionable if it will be treated the same way. OpenAI is not lockheed, but question is how much they value Pentagon contracts or really gov connections especially with all the regulation talk.
      - lumost 3y ago
        There will certainly be DARPA and other grants to test if dedicated defense suppliers make sense. In some areas, the funding model may be easier as a pure defense initiative where the DoD could shell out 50-100 Billion for cross-service AI functionality. In theory there is no reason why an individual soldier shouldn't be able to order an air strike, or be informed about inbound strikes on their position and how to react to those. Today, this is not possible due to the complex decisioning process for whether a target is worth a strike by X munition vs. Y munition and when. AI could simplify this process. On the other hand, well funded open source and commercial companies may deliver faster and with higher quality. The DoD doesn't use bespoke databases, and microchips for a reason (except when they do).
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    how did you even acquire this graph?
    - maxglute 3y ago
      https://macropolo.org/chinese-talent-generative-ai/?rp=m https://macropolo.org/chinese-talent-generative-ai/?rp=m
  - kridsdale1 3y ago
    That would be a great loss of talent. I wish we could make it much easier for those top scientists to become American citizens. Why assume they have loyalty to the CCP? They’re in California, presumably they like hot dogs, monster trucks, and bikinis.
    - jack1243star 3y ago
      They also like their friends and family members alive and well.
    - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
      > Why assume they have loyalty to the CCP? You answered > They’re in California
    - maxglute 3y ago
      >Why assume they have loyalty to the CCP Because that's American NatSec for you. They rather train a white kid from Iowa to read Chinese poorly and do even worse analysis than risk giving advantage to adversaries. The domestic politics of latter is more unforgiving. Also see China Initiative persecuting PRC scholars. Pentagon contracts will come with strings attached, hidden or otherwise.
    - astroid 3y ago
      I can't count the number of times I have seen Chinese people abroad having their family back at home punished for criticizing the CCP or taking other stances that the government oppose. Doing a quick search, I found several articles detailing how this is becoming more common, with this story being the first one I recalled as the video is nauseating: https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_china-tries-muffle-those-living-abroad-intimidating-their-families/6192452.html https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_china-tries-muff... "Editor’s Note: China’s government is expanding its censorship controls by targeting Chinese citizens overseas who criticize Beijing on social media. The pressure tactic is called “zhulian” – an ancient punishment meaning “guilt by association.” It usually involves police threatening family members in China for the actions of their relatives overseas. This happened to “Zoo” (short for @HorrorZoo, her main handle on Twitter), a Chinese student pursuing graduate studies in Australia, whose father has been repeatedly summoned to the police station because of her criticism of Chinese Communist Party leaders on social media. But instead of censoring her Twitter account, “Zoo” has become more outspoken, providing multiple videos of police intimidating her via video chat. Her story provides a rare look at how China tries to use the families of dissidents to silence them." Another instance: https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/overseas-chinese-10212022152902.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/overseas-chinese-1021... "Police in Beijing have contacted the family of a Chinese student studying in the United States after he expressed support online for the "Bridge Man" protester, who unfurled banners on a Beijing bridge calling on ruling Chinese leader Xi Jinping to step down on the eve of the 20th Communist party’s congress." I'm sure I could find hundreds of these - it has nothing to do with loyalty, and everything to do with external sources of pressure and coercion.
  - mock-possum 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 3y ago

Why is this being downvoted? This is totally possible, though I'm not saying it happened. Is it because it's speculative?

by Sl1mb0 3y ago

Why is this being downvoted? This is totally possible, though I'm not saying it happened. Is it because it's speculative?

janalsncm 3y ago

Hard to say why it was downvoted but I can say it’s a highly unlikely scenario. You typically need a security clearance to view classified info. Further, many employees at OpenAI may not even be US citizens, and even if they are, many others aren’t super enthusiastic about giving the Pentagon new toys to use.

maxglute 3y ago
OpenAI had/has 57 Chinese talent [1], they're probably getting the boot if OpenAI picks up Pentagon contracts. https://macropolo2.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/gpt_fig2_new-768x445.png https://macropolo2.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/20...
- lumost 3y ago
  For dual-use tech, its relatively common to have a small "government" division alongside the much larger commercial division. If the only difference for government is fine tuning data/DoD servers - it shouldn't cost OpenAI much to support.
  - maxglute 3y ago
    People are escalating AI to strategic/end of world tier of dual use tech. Questionable if it will be treated the same way. OpenAI is not lockheed, but question is how much they value Pentagon contracts or really gov connections especially with all the regulation talk.
    - lumost 3y ago
      There will certainly be DARPA and other grants to test if dedicated defense suppliers make sense. In some areas, the funding model may be easier as a pure defense initiative where the DoD could shell out 50-100 Billion for cross-service AI functionality. In theory there is no reason why an individual soldier shouldn't be able to order an air strike, or be informed about inbound strikes on their position and how to react to those. Today, this is not possible due to the complex decisioning process for whether a target is worth a strike by X munition vs. Y munition and when. AI could simplify this process. On the other hand, well funded open source and commercial companies may deliver faster and with higher quality. The DoD doesn't use bespoke databases, and microchips for a reason (except when they do).
- hackernewds 3y ago
  how did you even acquire this graph?
  - maxglute 3y ago
    https://macropolo.org/chinese-talent-generative-ai/?rp=m https://macropolo.org/chinese-talent-generative-ai/?rp=m
- kridsdale1 3y ago
  That would be a great loss of talent. I wish we could make it much easier for those top scientists to become American citizens. Why assume they have loyalty to the CCP? They’re in California, presumably they like hot dogs, monster trucks, and bikinis.
  - jack1243star 3y ago
    They also like their friends and family members alive and well.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    > Why assume they have loyalty to the CCP? You answered > They’re in California
  - maxglute 3y ago
    >Why assume they have loyalty to the CCP Because that's American NatSec for you. They rather train a white kid from Iowa to read Chinese poorly and do even worse analysis than risk giving advantage to adversaries. The domestic politics of latter is more unforgiving. Also see China Initiative persecuting PRC scholars. Pentagon contracts will come with strings attached, hidden or otherwise.
  - astroid 3y ago
    I can't count the number of times I have seen Chinese people abroad having their family back at home punished for criticizing the CCP or taking other stances that the government oppose. Doing a quick search, I found several articles detailing how this is becoming more common, with this story being the first one I recalled as the video is nauseating: https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_china-tries-muffle-those-living-abroad-intimidating-their-families/6192452.html https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_china-tries-muff... "Editor’s Note: China’s government is expanding its censorship controls by targeting Chinese citizens overseas who criticize Beijing on social media. The pressure tactic is called “zhulian” – an ancient punishment meaning “guilt by association.” It usually involves police threatening family members in China for the actions of their relatives overseas. This happened to “Zoo” (short for @HorrorZoo, her main handle on Twitter), a Chinese student pursuing graduate studies in Australia, whose father has been repeatedly summoned to the police station because of her criticism of Chinese Communist Party leaders on social media. But instead of censoring her Twitter account, “Zoo” has become more outspoken, providing multiple videos of police intimidating her via video chat. Her story provides a rare look at how China tries to use the families of dissidents to silence them." Another instance: https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/overseas-chinese-10212022152902.html https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/overseas-chinese-1021... "Police in Beijing have contacted the family of a Chinese student studying in the United States after he expressed support online for the "Bridge Man" protester, who unfurled banners on a Beijing bridge calling on ruling Chinese leader Xi Jinping to step down on the eve of the 20th Communist party’s congress." I'm sure I could find hundreds of these - it has nothing to do with loyalty, and everything to do with external sources of pressure and coercion.
- mock-possum 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago