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>employees who get taken away from their other duties to help customers deal with the confusing and error prone kiosks. I have seen these customers. I do not u

>employees who get taken away from their other duties to help customers deal with the confusing and error prone kiosks. I have seen these customers. I do not understand. What are they doing at the self-checkout that is confusing? I have used dozens of different implementations and they are all simplicity incarnate. So I just lump them all in with the folks who don't know that cars need oil changes, take more than 45 seconds at an ATM, get flustered by airport self-checkin machines, or sit in the drive-thru line of a fast food restaurant staring at a menu whose items have scarcely changed in 40 years confused about what's for sale.

the_snooze 3y ago
Some of those customers are indeed clueless. But the machines themselves aren't that great either. Automation and efficiency almost always come at the cost of decreased resiliency. They work great as long as you're on the happy path. To give a practical example, fresh produce have that 4-digit code to identify them (e.g., 4011 for bananas). But some fresh produce comes in containers that have barcodes on them, like grapes in plastic bags or clamshells. The machine expects the 4-digit code (printed on the container), but the customer expects to be able to scan the barcode just like everything else that comes packaged. The barcode fails to scan, and the customer will hold up the line to have a worker explain the mismatch in expectations. All because the machine designers built in an assumption (for efficiency's sake) that doesn't match the real world, and the machine can't adapt to it on the fly.
- joecot 3y ago
  As someone who uses self-checkout machines effectively, this happening is fine. I have a moment of confusion, then find the code, then move on to the next item. What is terrible is when instead of the self-checkout machine throwing a warning about it not being scanned correctly, so I can find and input the code, it just locks up the machine and says "Customer needs assistance". Then I'm in the same boat as the clueless folks, because the machine won't trust me to correct.
- Reason077 3y ago
  The modern machines have nice big pictures to help identify produce that doesn’t have a barcode on it, helpfully sorted with the most popular items first. Failing than you can search with the first few letters of the produce name. Haven’t seen one where you need to enter a numerical code for many years.
coderjames 3y ago
> >employees who get taken away from their other duties to help customers deal with the confusing and error prone kiosks. > I have seen these customers. I do not understand. One applicable scenario I have observed at my local super market is people for whom English (or the otherwise locally-dominant language) is not their first language. The machine may have a 'clear' error message displaying and speaking "return last scanned item to bagging area" but imagine that you don't understand the language the machine is using very well. At a register with a human, a person can unload groceries on to a belt, hand the cashier some bills that they may or may not entirely understand the value of or swipe a government-provided benefits card, and get back their items and any applicable change without needing a firm grasp of the spoken or written language.
- adhesive_wombat 3y ago
  Indeed. Could you understand "unexpected item in bagging area" in, say, Russian or Arabic? Hell, I have no idea how to translate "bagging area" from/to my second-best language and I've been learning it for over 10 years.
currymj 3y ago
if you accidentally scan something twice, frequently the machine requires an employee to delete the entry for you.
- g-b-r 3y ago
  I've actually never seen one where you can delete stuff yourself
  - shellfishgene 3y ago
    I wonder why, as the alternative are hand scanners that you carry around the store, and those even have +/- buttons to adjust product amounts. Is that not the same opportunity to cheat?
    - g-b-r 3y ago
      The employees check that you're scanning the stuff before you drop it in the beg, it's a lot harder to notice someone deleting things afterwards (although they could simply add a distinctive sound for it)
  - sureglymop 3y ago
    In Switzerland that's possible in all stores who have them. You can also change the amount of a scanned item. Also, for everything that can't be scanned (like freshly baked bread etc.) there are images and a search function to find these items.
smileysteve 3y ago
A few things trip me up at the grocery store - bringing my own bag and a bag blows over triggers a theft check - purchasing alcohol distributor or many medicines in my state requires an id check - multiple upcs on an item requires a void - large item like dog food and you don't get to "skip bagging" quickly enough
g-b-r 3y ago
Many of them have some confusing states, you've probably just not run into them
jen20 3y ago
Typically the confusion is caused by under-spec’d hardware or web-grade software making something that should respond in 2-3 milliseconds take a second per interaction. They’re only simple if you’ve never experienced something that works correctly and in accordance with HCI standards. Airport self checkin machines are the same - but also lacking the range of options the expert member of staff has.
chrisdhal 3y ago
At BJs (smaller version of Costco), they have self checkout almost exclusively. They also have a constant deal of "mix and match" 2 types of potato chips. The problem is that their system is not setup to ring those up correctly, so when you scan one bag it immediately stops and lights up the "need help" light. Then you need to wait until the attendant comes by and clears it up. After about the 3rd time you realize that they just scan a code that's taped to the register so you quickly start doing that yourself. This product also prevents you from using the app to do the "scan and pay in the app and skip the checkout". This is obviously something that should be fixed in the system, but it's nothing that the consumer can do anything about.

the_snooze 3y ago

Some of those customers are indeed clueless. But the machines themselves aren't that great either. Automation and efficiency almost always come at the cost of decreased resiliency. They work great as long as you're on the happy path. To give a practical example, fresh produce have that 4-digit code to identify them (e.g., 4011 for bananas). But some fresh produce comes in containers that have barcodes on them, like grapes in plastic bags or clamshells. The machine expects the 4-digit code (printed on the container), but the customer expects to be able to scan the barcode just like everything else that comes packaged. The barcode fails to scan, and the customer will hold up the line to have a worker explain the mismatch in expectations. All because the machine designers built in an assumption (for efficiency's sake) that doesn't match the real world, and the machine can't adapt to it on the fly.

joecot 3y ago
As someone who uses self-checkout machines effectively, this happening is fine. I have a moment of confusion, then find the code, then move on to the next item. What is terrible is when instead of the self-checkout machine throwing a warning about it not being scanned correctly, so I can find and input the code, it just locks up the machine and says "Customer needs assistance". Then I'm in the same boat as the clueless folks, because the machine won't trust me to correct.
Reason077 3y ago
The modern machines have nice big pictures to help identify produce that doesn’t have a barcode on it, helpfully sorted with the most popular items first. Failing than you can search with the first few letters of the produce name. Haven’t seen one where you need to enter a numerical code for many years.

coderjames 3y ago

> >employees who get taken away from their other duties to help customers deal with the confusing and error prone kiosks. > I have seen these customers. I do not understand. One applicable scenario I have observed at my local super market is people for whom English (or the otherwise locally-dominant language) is not their first language. The machine may have a 'clear' error message displaying and speaking "return last scanned item to bagging area" but imagine that you don't understand the language the machine is using very well. At a register with a human, a person can unload groceries on to a belt, hand the cashier some bills that they may or may not entirely understand the value of or swipe a government-provided benefits card, and get back their items and any applicable change without needing a firm grasp of the spoken or written language.

adhesive_wombat 3y ago
Indeed. Could you understand "unexpected item in bagging area" in, say, Russian or Arabic? Hell, I have no idea how to translate "bagging area" from/to my second-best language and I've been learning it for over 10 years.

currymj 3y ago

if you accidentally scan something twice, frequently the machine requires an employee to delete the entry for you.

g-b-r 3y ago
I've actually never seen one where you can delete stuff yourself
- shellfishgene 3y ago
  I wonder why, as the alternative are hand scanners that you carry around the store, and those even have +/- buttons to adjust product amounts. Is that not the same opportunity to cheat?
  - g-b-r 3y ago
    The employees check that you're scanning the stuff before you drop it in the beg, it's a lot harder to notice someone deleting things afterwards (although they could simply add a distinctive sound for it)
- sureglymop 3y ago
  In Switzerland that's possible in all stores who have them. You can also change the amount of a scanned item. Also, for everything that can't be scanned (like freshly baked bread etc.) there are images and a search function to find these items.

smileysteve 3y ago

A few things trip me up at the grocery store - bringing my own bag and a bag blows over triggers a theft check - purchasing alcohol distributor or many medicines in my state requires an id check - multiple upcs on an item requires a void - large item like dog food and you don't get to "skip bagging" quickly enough

g-b-r 3y ago

Many of them have some confusing states, you've probably just not run into them

jen20 3y ago

Typically the confusion is caused by under-spec’d hardware or web-grade software making something that should respond in 2-3 milliseconds take a second per interaction. They’re only simple if you’ve never experienced something that works correctly and in accordance with HCI standards. Airport self checkin machines are the same - but also lacking the range of options the expert member of staff has.

chrisdhal 3y ago

At BJs (smaller version of Costco), they have self checkout almost exclusively. They also have a constant deal of "mix and match" 2 types of potato chips. The problem is that their system is not setup to ring those up correctly, so when you scan one bag it immediately stops and lights up the "need help" light. Then you need to wait until the attendant comes by and clears it up. After about the 3rd time you realize that they just scan a code that's taped to the register so you quickly start doing that yourself. This product also prevents you from using the app to do the "scan and pay in the app and skip the checkout". This is obviously something that should be fixed in the system, but it's nothing that the consumer can do anything about.