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The fact is, EVs right now give consumers worse experience in terms of range, recharge time, and reliability, and they cost substantially more. You can try guil

The fact is, EVs right now give consumers worse experience in terms of range, recharge time, and reliability, and they cost substantially more. You can try guilting them about saving the planet, but ultimately most consumers buy what serves them best.

soco 3y ago
Because killing the planet serves them best, right. It's not even wrong, we won't die all in 20 years. Not even 40, I suppose. And after that... après moi, le déluge (and it's no metaphor this time)
- nathanaldensr 3y ago
  Objection, your honor: assumes facts not in evidence.
- kgabis 3y ago
  If you *really* care about planet then you don't drive a car but use public transport and/or cycle.
asoneth 3y ago
> give consumers worse experience in terms of range, recharge time, and reliability My expectation was also that switching to electric cars would involve some sacrifice but for my use cases it has been net more convenient. For daily commuting I plug in at the office garage where they have dozens of L1 and about twenty L2 chargers. This has been more convenient than remembering to stop at a gas pump a couple times a month. I initially kept a gasolene car for long trips because I assumed it would be inconvenient to schedule a ~30m stop every ~4 hours or so. In practice it turns out I need to stop about that frequently for family members to stretch, use the restroom, and grab a bite, etc. The major difference has been that it constrains where we stop rather than when we stop. However, if you are regularly doing 5+ hour trips in rural or remote areas, then a gasolene or diesel vehicle is a more convenient choice. As they build out a more comprehensive charging infrastructure the difference may lessen. I cannot speak to reliability as we've only had them for a year now.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
We have both an EV and a gasoline car. The EV is by far the superior winter car. 1. The EV always starts. If it's below -20, our gasoline car may not. 2. The battery is always charged in the morning. OTOH the gasoline car is only filled sporadically. In the winter I try and ensure there's at least half a tank for safety reasons, but sometimes it does get as low as a quarter tank. Even with cold loss, an EV with a full battery has far more range than a gasoline car with a quarter tank. 3. The EV can be preheated in the garage without killing people. 4. An EV battery has enough capacity to run the seat warmers for a month, keeping people alive in an emergency. A gasoline car can only idle for about 24 hours. 5. That's if you keep your exhaust clear. I know people who didn't, and died. 6. A EV that's plugged in, but not inside can be kept warm. 7. Our EV handles a lot better on snow and ice than the gasoline car. Perhaps it's because of weight, perhaps it's because it can do traction control with the motor rather than using the brakes.
- dekhn 3y ago
  For #1, don't folks in cold climates normally use an electric engine heater to get the gas car started? When I was planning a trip to Tahoe, during inclement weather, I figured my new RAV4 Prime (a hybrid) would be perfect. I'd drive the whole way on gas and keep the battery fully charged; if I got stuck on Donner Pass, I think the battery can keep the main compartment at a reasonable temperature all night without running the ICE. Fortunately that never came up but it was an interesting thought at a time when folks were getting stuck on Donner for 10+ hours.
  - timbit42 3y ago
    As a Canadian, block heaters were common decades ago with carbureted vehicles but modern ones have fuel injection and start easier so not many have a block heater today.
- kkfx 3y ago
  I have three cars, two diesel, one electric and well... I do not live now in cold climate, minim hit here was -25℃ and all cars start without issue with a bit of gasoline added to the diesel for the ICEs BUT in the past I've experienced that modern cars can works only at temperature above -30℃. Old soviet UAZ works well also below, at least until a wheel freeze or something similar. It's not common of course in most parts of the inhabited world experiencing such low temps BUT that's is. About point 4) well... My car suck 20A@400V to run the heating, definitively can't last even few days. About 6) all BEVs I know do not offer real "keep the battery heated as long as it's cold enough" function, some decide randomly to try heating the battery, but not much is left in users hands. One of the many things those who design ALL modern software do have to learn and refuse: user control first, automation only at a subsequent level... About 7) well, no. Electric motors spin brutally, witch MIGHT be useful under certain conditions but it's also useful to lose grip in many others, and it's also an issue when parking in tight places...
mmh0000 3y ago
I highly disagree with this statement. I've owned a Tesla Model S since 2014, In a northern/cold climate. Yes, cold affects range, but not that much; you have to plan for it if you want to do a cold-weather road trip. For my everyday driving, you know, home->work->home, home->store->home, and the like, I NEVER have to think about range or recharging. For me, it is a much better experience than a gas car could provide. I pre-heat my car in the garage, have charging on auto, get in the car, and go. I never even have to scrape ice off the windshield when it's left outside because I'll turn on the heater 20 minutes before I plan on going. As for reliability... Tesla's aren't well-known for reliability, but I'm still driving my 2014 car; it got a handful of warranty issues fixed, and since it's been out of warranty, I've only had to replace the 12v battery. This car is far less maintenance than any I've previously owned.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
I spend far less time charging my car than I used to at the gas station. Especially in the winter the gas station sucked, now I just plug in at work which takes 5 seconds.

soco 3y ago

Because killing the planet serves them best, right. It's not even wrong, we won't die all in 20 years. Not even 40, I suppose. And after that... après moi, le déluge (and it's no metaphor this time)

nathanaldensr 3y ago
Objection, your honor: assumes facts not in evidence.
kgabis 3y ago
If you *really* care about planet then you don't drive a car but use public transport and/or cycle.

asoneth 3y ago

> give consumers worse experience in terms of range, recharge time, and reliability My expectation was also that switching to electric cars would involve some sacrifice but for my use cases it has been net more convenient. For daily commuting I plug in at the office garage where they have dozens of L1 and about twenty L2 chargers. This has been more convenient than remembering to stop at a gas pump a couple times a month. I initially kept a gasolene car for long trips because I assumed it would be inconvenient to schedule a ~30m stop every ~4 hours or so. In practice it turns out I need to stop about that frequently for family members to stretch, use the restroom, and grab a bite, etc. The major difference has been that it constrains where we stop rather than when we stop. However, if you are regularly doing 5+ hour trips in rural or remote areas, then a gasolene or diesel vehicle is a more convenient choice. As they build out a more comprehensive charging infrastructure the difference may lessen. I cannot speak to reliability as we've only had them for a year now.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

We have both an EV and a gasoline car. The EV is by far the superior winter car. 1. The EV always starts. If it's below -20, our gasoline car may not. 2. The battery is always charged in the morning. OTOH the gasoline car is only filled sporadically. In the winter I try and ensure there's at least half a tank for safety reasons, but sometimes it does get as low as a quarter tank. Even with cold loss, an EV with a full battery has far more range than a gasoline car with a quarter tank. 3. The EV can be preheated in the garage without killing people. 4. An EV battery has enough capacity to run the seat warmers for a month, keeping people alive in an emergency. A gasoline car can only idle for about 24 hours. 5. That's if you keep your exhaust clear. I know people who didn't, and died. 6. A EV that's plugged in, but not inside can be kept warm. 7. Our EV handles a lot better on snow and ice than the gasoline car. Perhaps it's because of weight, perhaps it's because it can do traction control with the motor rather than using the brakes.

dekhn 3y ago
For #1, don't folks in cold climates normally use an electric engine heater to get the gas car started? When I was planning a trip to Tahoe, during inclement weather, I figured my new RAV4 Prime (a hybrid) would be perfect. I'd drive the whole way on gas and keep the battery fully charged; if I got stuck on Donner Pass, I think the battery can keep the main compartment at a reasonable temperature all night without running the ICE. Fortunately that never came up but it was an interesting thought at a time when folks were getting stuck on Donner for 10+ hours.
- timbit42 3y ago
  As a Canadian, block heaters were common decades ago with carbureted vehicles but modern ones have fuel injection and start easier so not many have a block heater today.
kkfx 3y ago
I have three cars, two diesel, one electric and well... I do not live now in cold climate, minim hit here was -25℃ and all cars start without issue with a bit of gasoline added to the diesel for the ICEs BUT in the past I've experienced that modern cars can works only at temperature above -30℃. Old soviet UAZ works well also below, at least until a wheel freeze or something similar. It's not common of course in most parts of the inhabited world experiencing such low temps BUT that's is. About point 4) well... My car suck 20A@400V to run the heating, definitively can't last even few days. About 6) all BEVs I know do not offer real "keep the battery heated as long as it's cold enough" function, some decide randomly to try heating the battery, but not much is left in users hands. One of the many things those who design ALL modern software do have to learn and refuse: user control first, automation only at a subsequent level... About 7) well, no. Electric motors spin brutally, witch MIGHT be useful under certain conditions but it's also useful to lose grip in many others, and it's also an issue when parking in tight places...

mmh0000 3y ago

I highly disagree with this statement. I've owned a Tesla Model S since 2014, In a northern/cold climate. Yes, cold affects range, but not that much; you have to plan for it if you want to do a cold-weather road trip. For my everyday driving, you know, home->work->home, home->store->home, and the like, I NEVER have to think about range or recharging. For me, it is a much better experience than a gas car could provide. I pre-heat my car in the garage, have charging on auto, get in the car, and go. I never even have to scrape ice off the windshield when it's left outside because I'll turn on the heater 20 minutes before I plan on going. As for reliability... Tesla's aren't well-known for reliability, but I'm still driving my 2014 car; it got a handful of warranty issues fixed, and since it's been out of warranty, I've only had to replace the 12v battery. This car is far less maintenance than any I've previously owned.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

I spend far less time charging my car than I used to at the gas station. Especially in the winter the gas station sucked, now I just plug in at work which takes 5 seconds.