4 ms·

Concentration of capital isn't polarizing, it's a perfectly cromulent criticism. What's polarizing was the promotion of an economic/politcal system which to da

Concentration of capital isn't polarizing, it's a perfectly cromulent criticism. What's polarizing was the promotion of an economic/politcal system which to date has had a perfect record of turning into a totalitarian dictatorship.

jampekka 3y ago
Or something like a welfare state. Most western European countries have implemented roughly all Demands of the Communist Party in Germany, although some of these have been rolled back in the neoliberal era. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/03/24.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/03/24.htm
- DonsDiscountGas 3y ago
  The countries with the most comprehensive welfare states all have capitalist economies. Since communism destroys wealth (and lives) rather than create any, there doesn't end up being a lot to spread around.
  - jampekka 3y ago
    Soviet Union (Marxism-Leninism) created a lot of wealth. I don't think it's a good implementation of socialism but your claim that "communism destroys wealth (and lives) rather than create" is just plain false. https://www.jstor.org/stable/45311779 https://www.jstor.org/stable/45311779
  - rickydroll 3y ago
    Most descriptions of the evils of communism usually describe Fascism. As we all know, fascism destroys wealth and lives, except for the oligarchs that manage to float to the top.
    - jampekka 3y ago
      Fascism is quite a vague concept (as is communism), but I think you're right that the "exclusive collectionism" (exclusive to e.g. nationality or ethnicity) and extreme hierarchies (e.g. the fuhrer-principle) are close to what the Cold War propaganda attributes to socialism. And as we know, fascism is capitalism in decay.
      - rickydroll 3y ago
        https://web.archive.org/web/20170131155837/http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170131155837/http://www.nybook... Umberto Eco wrote my goto definition of fascism. hope you find it interesting. Socialism is one of those heavily mis-defined/used words. I tend to stick to the economic definition. As in "A socialist economic system is characterized by social ownership and operation of the means of production that may take the form of autonomous cooperatives or direct public ownership wherein production is carried out directly for use rather than for profit." (quote from Wikipedia socialist economics). one of the downsides of discussions about socialism is inevitably someone starts using long convoluted sentences like the above. Socialism as political definitions have been merged and smashed together with communism and fascism in Nazism and conservatism etc. etc.
  - xorcist 3y ago
    Yet they seem to be doing fine?

jampekka 3y ago

Or something like a welfare state. Most western European countries have implemented roughly all Demands of the Communist Party in Germany, although some of these have been rolled back in the neoliberal era. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/03/24.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/03/24.htm

DonsDiscountGas 3y ago
The countries with the most comprehensive welfare states all have capitalist economies. Since communism destroys wealth (and lives) rather than create any, there doesn't end up being a lot to spread around.
- jampekka 3y ago
  Soviet Union (Marxism-Leninism) created a lot of wealth. I don't think it's a good implementation of socialism but your claim that "communism destroys wealth (and lives) rather than create" is just plain false. https://www.jstor.org/stable/45311779 https://www.jstor.org/stable/45311779
- rickydroll 3y ago
  Most descriptions of the evils of communism usually describe Fascism. As we all know, fascism destroys wealth and lives, except for the oligarchs that manage to float to the top.
  - jampekka 3y ago
    Fascism is quite a vague concept (as is communism), but I think you're right that the "exclusive collectionism" (exclusive to e.g. nationality or ethnicity) and extreme hierarchies (e.g. the fuhrer-principle) are close to what the Cold War propaganda attributes to socialism. And as we know, fascism is capitalism in decay.
    - rickydroll 3y ago
      https://web.archive.org/web/20170131155837/http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170131155837/http://www.nybook... Umberto Eco wrote my goto definition of fascism. hope you find it interesting. Socialism is one of those heavily mis-defined/used words. I tend to stick to the economic definition. As in "A socialist economic system is characterized by social ownership and operation of the means of production that may take the form of autonomous cooperatives or direct public ownership wherein production is carried out directly for use rather than for profit." (quote from Wikipedia socialist economics). one of the downsides of discussions about socialism is inevitably someone starts using long convoluted sentences like the above. Socialism as political definitions have been merged and smashed together with communism and fascism in Nazism and conservatism etc. etc.
- xorcist 3y ago
  Yet they seem to be doing fine?