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Get a Windows 11 development environment
- Neil44 3y agoI use this as a general mess about VM, for installing stuff, trying stuff out etc that I don't want to on my main machine. They expire after a while but that's OK, they still work after expiry.
- coreyh14444 3y agoWindows already has the Windows Sandbox which is for exactly this purpose. You can spin it up in seconds, mess with it and when you close it, everything is gone.
- gchamonlive 3y agoIs it reliable? A VM is fully isolated, apart from maybe network and IO.
- r1ch 3y agoIt's Hyper-V under the hood.
- gchamonlive 3y agoCurious to know which tradeoffs Microsoft chose to have sandbox boot this quickly
- r1ch 3y agoIt's actually restoring state from a snapshot so it doesn't need to fully boot. There's some great technical details at https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-os-platform-blog/windows-sandbox/ba-p/301849 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-os-platform-b...
- jkaplowitz 3y agoNeat to learn about that. Still, it’s a new feature with Windows 10 and requires that the host OS be a Pro or Enterprise edition of Windows 10 or 11 (and for Enterprise it also cares about the licensing). Hardware requirements also exist. The downloadable VMs don’t even require that your host OS be Windows or that you already have a Windows license, and they’ve been offered since long before Windows Sandbox existed.
- fodkodrasz 3y agoI tried to like windows Sandbox, but I think it would be a killer if it would be like docker/podman with a proper GUI and desktop: you could snapshot it (no need for branching, and stuff, just persist it), and continue your work in it later. Keeping VMs around and tending them is a nuisance, but I have some software i'd prefer to only use in an isolated persistent sandbox (crapware for industrial control stuff, for example). Having lots of VMs around for this is really cumbersome. It (Sandbox) worked okay for shady car repair handbook .ISO salvaged from the net for a long EOL'd unsupported model. Hope I'm not in a botnet... but I could find the repair instructions :D
- dvh 3y ago22GB
- candiodari 3y agoActually running it requires at minimum 70G of diskspace (see bottom of page). Not even clear if that includes the 22GB download.
- coreyh14444 3y agoAFAIK, these types of VMs have been offered for many years. They used to be for IE compatibility, but they were full Windows installs. I know they existed as far back as 2013 and maybe even earlier.
- Andrex 3y agoI remember those. I was more of a noob back then so instead of all the fiddling I often just used Browsershots.
- adastra22 3y agoDefinitely earlier. I used these in 2011 while employed by a major government contractor. We had a stupid in-house system for paperwork submission that only worked on IE6 running on Windows XP. For my team I made an VirtualBox image based on this that could run on our customer-issued MacBook devices. Anytime we needed to submit expenses, just load the WinXP virtual machine.
- ErneX 3y agoTrue, I used them for IE debugging.
- hiyer 3y agoYes. You also get Vagrant images for them [1] which are quite convenient to use. 1. https://app.vagrantup.com/gusztavvargadr/boxes/windows-11 https://app.vagrantup.com/gusztavvargadr/boxes/windows-11
- llimos 3y agoIf you have an older machine that doesn't support win11, could you get this and run it in Hyper-V on win10 as your main machine?
- Zetobal 3y agoThey offer VirtualBox packages.
- theblazehen 3y agoAlternatively, you can also just bypass the compatibility checks
- x13pixels 3y ago> "...and the PC will shut down every hour" Likely to be as close to a production Windows environment as possible.
- deskamess 3y ago> If the evaluation period expires, the desktop background will turn black, you will see a persistent desktop notification indicating that the system is not genuine, and the PC will shut down every hour. Otherwise you have an approx 1 month trial period. Which is pretty short - 2 months would be better.
- fodkodrasz 3y agoHow does the 1 month compare to the 0 month trial period offered by of MacOS? I think one month is decent. But I'm pretty sure if it would be 2 months, you'd say 2 months is pretty short (why?), 3 would better (sure, more is better).
- vextea 3y agoThe main issue is that the duration is variable depending on when the VM was released. When I checked earlier (not sure if this is still the case) the license was valid for 90 days after release.
- stinos 3y agoWith slmgr /rearm you can extend the license period. IIRC a couple of times but not unlimited, but I definitely got more than 2 months out of it.
- nottorp 3y agoGet a win 11 development environment, install WSL and carry on with your development? :)
- dole 3y ago“The evaluation virtual machine includes: … Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 enabled with Ubuntu installed” :|
- Andrex 3y agoIt's abstractions all the way down.
- the_third_wave 3y agoIf you manage to install this Windows release in a VM in Ubuntu is certainly is: Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V ] Ubuntu [ KVM ] Windows [ Hyper-V] (Armageddon/Ragnarök/heat death of universe)
- donatj 3y ago> Unfortunately, we don't have an ARM version available at the moment. We understand that this may be disappointing news, but we don't have any short term plans to create these. However, we're always open to feedback and suggestions from our users and will take them into consideration when planning future updates. Feedback - Quit being so cagey about your ARM release. Make them easier to find. Hell, just create an official UTM image while you are at it. Apple Silicon users will thank you, all at once.
- outcoldman 3y agoThey also provide Parallels Image (but no arm), which is an official authorized solution to run Windows ARM on Apple Silicone https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/options-for-using-windows-11-with-mac-computers-with-apple-m1-and-m2-chips-cd15fd62-9b34-4b78-b0bc-121baa3c568c https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/options-for-usin... Weird that they would not include ARM version, considering that Visual Studio for ARM is available too.
- Philpax 3y agoThere's speculation that Microsoft have had a deal with Qualcomm that has prevented this to date [1], but that deal should hopefully be expiring soon. [1]: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/329311-report-windows-on-arm-is-exclusive-to-qualcomm-but-not-for-much-longer https://www.extremetech.com/computing/329311-report-windows-...
- donatj 3y agoPrevent what exactly though? Running on physical hardware I would have to imagine? They have ARM images available, I run them in UTM already. They just make them increasingly difficult to find.
- Andrex 3y agoNo thanks, I'm good.
- alkonaut 3y agoWhy does it shut down every hour? If it ships with VS and all that, presumably they want me to develop on it? And if they want me to develop on it why would I want to be interrupted every hour? Or is this so that I can spin up boxes for free (no Windows licenses) in my CI pipeline, so long as the build takes less than an hour?
- JeffSnazz 3y agoWhat's the windows development environment like? Have they excised the nightmare that is the windows registry yet?
- adastra22 3y agoWSL is quite nice ;)
- Dalewyn 3y agoThe Windows Registry is far better than the the INI Hell(tm) that preceded it or the chaos that is assorted text files on Linux.
- JeffSnazz 3y ago> The Windows Registry is far better than the the INI Hell(tm) that preceded it or the chaos that is assorted text files on Linux. What excuse is there for the registry? Why are we stuck with 1980s solutions for 2024 problems? Why is there not simply some directory devoted per-app for configuration? How is this any better than "chaos that is assorted text files on Linux"? Of note—you can edit the linux configuration files with any editor you give a shit about, not just a one-off proprietary tool that obviously sucks ass.
- Dalewyn 3y ago>Why is there not simply some directory devoted per-app for configuration? Because one of the key objectives of the Windows Registry is to centralize the chaos induced by programmers being programmers. Of course, if you bothered to learn how it all works you will know each program gets its own "directory" inside the Registry. Or they should, anyway; programmers gonna be programmers. >Of note—you can edit the linux configuration files with any editor you give a shit about, not just a one-off proprietary tool that obviously sucks ass. You can access and modify the Registry using any of: Registry Editor, Powershell, and plain text files imported into or exported from Registry Editor. >Why are we stuck with 1980s solutions for 2024 problems? The only people stuck in the 80s are the FOSS neckbeards such as yourself insisting on doing things the One Holy Way(tm), which is plain text files of arbitrary formatting located and accessed in arbitrary fashion. The Windows Registry mandates a single format and central location and access scheme, which reins in at least some of the programmer chaos.
- anticorporate 3y agoCounterpoint: Get a Linux development environment, and it won't have any of these limitations or annoyances.
- doikor 3y agoHow exactly would you develop a native Windows application by doing that? Obviously the main reason to use this is that you need to make a Windows version of some application and don't natively use Windows as your development/testing environment. And these have existed for at least a decade. I remember using one in the early 2010s to debug weird issues with IE.
- flkenosad 3y agoWhy would you want to develop a native Windows app in 2024 rather than a cross-platform or browser-based application?
- doikor 3y agoBecause sometimes you need/want to or someone pays you to? Think any browser, heavy 3d/rendering stuff (Maya, Blender, etc), games/game engines, etc. Even basic streaming/video/music players (Spotify, VLC or even ffmpeg has a Windows port/build that could have platform specific bugs). Also even in the case that the application is mostly just an embedded browser window it can still have platform specific bugs. I would argue the vast majority of native desktop applications are Windows applications just due to its massive marketshare. So in most cases if you are making a native application for desktop you will have to at the very least debug it on Windows sooner or later.
- flkenosad 3y ago> Think any browser, heavy 3d/rendering stuff (Maya, Blender, etc), games/game engines, etc. Yeah dude platform-layer stuff would need to be native. But literally all those things are platforms on top of another platform. They're not applications and we're talking about applications. > Even basic streaming/video/music players (Spotify, VLC or even ffmpeg has a Windows port/build that could have platform specific bugs). Also even in the case that the application is mostly just a an embedded browser window it can still have platform specific bugs. This is not my experience with non-proprietary streaming services. The only reason those need access to the native environment is for DRM reasons. > I would argue the vast majority of native desktop applications are Windows applications just due to its massive marketshare. So in most cases if you are making a native application for desktop you will have to at the very least debug it on Windows sooner or later. This is only due to momentum. I highly doubt this is the future of computing..
- twodave 3y agoSort of tired of every windows-related article turning into a punchline. Why bother posting/upvoting these if we already know there won’t be any insightful comments?
- flkenosad 3y agoSort of tired of smart, intelligent, wealthy people convincing the general population to use proprietary platforms when it's obviously not in their best interest.
- twodave 3y agoOk? But this article isn’t about that, and you’re unlikely to reach the general population on Hacker News. This is a place for curious, insightful conversation, not for flaming organizations we just don’t like.
- Hizonner 3y agoStop developing for Windows. It needs to die.
- hulitu 3y agoLast time they tried that, Bill Gates flew to Munich.
- eklavya 3y agoThis is the only reason why I can still support a windows app, thanks for this MS.
- plq 3y agoI develop using these on Linux for Windows. The current version (2311) is not usable on Virtualbox (see known issues towards the end) so we are still sticking to version 2210 (it's expired but slmgr /rearm works) Reinstalling it every couple of months is not much of a problem if you have a provisioning script. I actually like to do it that way because keeps bloat to a minimum.
- Dalewyn 3y agoIf it's the issue I've been trying to workaround (to no practical success), it's something to do with how VirtualBox does 3D acceleration. I've found turning that off renders Windows 11 fine, though obviously with a significant performance penalty.
- LorenDB 3y agoWhat do you mean not usable on Virtualbox? I just spun it up last week and have had only a few minor rendering glitches (that aren't really common for me to hit, either). Edit: now I see that that is the known issue. However, I only hit it in a few places: - Start menu search - Visual Studio installer - Visual Studio launch screen It's not really unusable, though; the Start menu issue is just a flicker and the VS issues are simply the wrong text being rendered until you mouse over it. It's a bit annoying, but I am fine with it.
- eklavya 3y agoDoesn't work with vbox 7, try 6.