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'A mouse for your mouth': New device allows users to scroll with their tongues
- hiAndrewQuinn 3y agoOh, very cool. My undergrad thesis project was a $20-of-materials device that turned EMG readings into mouse cursor movements, it's always interesting seeing new frontiers in computer input methods. The source code was sadly lost in the great GitHub Christmas wipe of 2021, but it was really interesting to test it out on myself. Since EMG readings are 1-dimensional but cursor movement is 2-dimensional, I decided to make it a beat based system, like a rhythm game - a small flex moved the cursor proportionally, a large flex rotated the movement of the next cursor movement 90 degrees counterclockwise.
- pabs3 3y agoIf the source code was public, then it might be in the Software Heritage archive: https://archive.softwareheritage.org/ https://archive.softwareheritage.org/
- earthling8118 3y agoThere seems to be no information available online about a GitHub wipe in 2021. I haven't noticed anything missing personally. Care to share any information on that?
- FerretFred 3y agoI'm looking toward to CES 2030 when this device will be offered as a permanent implant :)
- bigbluedots 3y agoJust ask Elon, he can help you today
- earthboundkid 3y agoDo you want The This by Adam Roberts? Because this is how you get The This.
- MichaelRo 3y ago>> 'A mouse for your mouth': New device allows users to scroll with their tongues I imagine some VR applications for PornHub. How 'bout scrolling with other body parts? Focus on something from the rear :))
- wildpeaks 3y agoMore comments from a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35684828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35684828
- gumballindie 3y agoI can see one particular use for this device that reminds me of FufMe. Would go well with VR.
- beeforpork 3y agoThat's a rooslessly non-native speaker intolerant naming! How am I supposed to buy one of seese?
- TriangleEdge 3y agoThis was done 10 years ago by the guy that runs the YT channel called Applied Science [1]. If my memory serves me well, he worked on R&D at Valve, but I could be wrong. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyaiszgzIzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyaiszgzIzo
- RockRobotRock 3y agoHe’s on HN too I think. His mouth controlled sustain pedal was also really really cool. Easily the most interesting channel on youtube.
- mcshicks 3y agoWilliam Gibson's novel the Peripheral (2014) and Agency (2020) have characters who control implanted smartphones (like a HUD on your eyes and audio channel built into you ears) that are controlled by using the tip of you tongue on the roof of your mouth. It's possible he was inspired by the video or some other source but yeah it's clear the idea has been around for a while.
- rlpb 3y agoSpeaker for the Dead (1987) has something similar so the idea is much older than that at least.
- Terr_ 3y agoIIRC the book(s) mainly referenced "subvocal" controls, based on detecting almost-talking movements within the user's face/throat/voicebox. I'd argue those are qualitatively different, more like a modern-day system of saying "AssistantBot: Send E-Mail", as opposed to a geometric mapping one could use for, say, painting a picture.
- FredPret 3y agoThis would be incredible if coupled with smartglasses
- mrits 3y agoAlmost like that scene from the movie Idiocracy
- ofek 3y agoThis makes me very excited. I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy type 2 [1] and I have lost most of my physical capabilities save for 2-3 fingers and of course speech. Although I am now on Nusinersen [2] treatments I am still becoming weaker over time, albeit extremely slowly. One day I would love to use this device because for some reason my tongue has not experienced any degradation in all of my life so it would be nice to know I have a fallback, should I need one. Note that specialists are saying that another promising drug from Scholar Rock [3] would probably prevent any further weakening if used in conjunction with my current treatment. Unfortunately, the FDA takes a long time to approve new medications and I have heard this one is particularly special because there is potential for abuse by athletes. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_muscular_atrophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_muscular_atrophy [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nusinersen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nusinersen [3]: https://scholarrock.com/our-pipeline/spinal-muscular-atrophy/ https://scholarrock.com/our-pipeline/spinal-muscular-atrophy...
- aszantu 3y agoMight I ask about your diet?
- NoPedantsThanks 3y agoI hope it works out for you!
- cebert 3y agoThanks for sharing more information on spinal muscular atrophy. I’m sorry you have to deal with this and hope a cure is found. I’m inspired by people like you who have to overcome challenges like yours.
- cjbgkagh 3y agoEver thought about going to the grey/black market? If the athletes can get it why can’t you? I could understand the reasons why you may not want to. I have chronic fatigue and if it wasn’t for black market medications I would still be stuck in bed until I ran out of money by which time the only state help I could expect is assisted suicide - which made the choice for me. Myostatin inhibitors peptides like follistatin 344 are pretty pedestrian compared some of the stuff I’m on. I would die long before the meds I’m on would get FDA approval.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- autoexec 3y agoCleanliness is a obvious concern with something like this, and I wonder how well people with dexterity problems let alone paralysis will be able to keep something like this clean. The one shown in the article has a lot of groves and valleys even on the bottom (tongue facing) side which look like they could trap bacteria.
- boomboomsubban 3y agoPresumably they clean it the same way people clean dentures. The electronic parts make it more difficult, but with wireless charging and Bluetooth it seems like it'd be possible.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoUltrasonic jewelry cleaner should work
- mnurzia 3y agoI could actually see myself using this, if it is reasonably precise. A lot of the software that I use is GUI-only, and I really don't like taking my hands off of the keyboard to reach my mouse.
- eternityforest 3y agoI've always wondered what kind of input device could be used to fix the ultimate first world problem, sore fingers from phone overuse
- _shantaram 3y agoHave you ever tried using a trackpoint?
- mnurzia 3y agoNot really. The very first computer I used growing up (~2005 dell inspiron) had one but I could barely use a keyboard at that point. Haven't had access to one since. Do you use one? If so, do you think getting a standalone keyboard with a trackpoint is worth it for someone in my situation?
- evanjrowley 3y agoI used to believe that the TrackPoint was the ultimate mouse input, but that belief has been shaken by this concept.
- acomjean 3y agoI had a week mouse that had a track point instead of a wheel. It was great and I wonder sometimes why they don't exist anymmore.
- serf 3y agoI use a wheelchair and have partially disabled hands and arms from a spinal cord injury (quadriplegia/hemiplegia,whatever). I saw this and got super excited to try to use it as a means to signal software to help me actuate the intensity of my TIG torch welder, especially after the video on their site showing such esoteric uses as a couple using it to control their sex vibrator and other kind of 'weird' lifestyle uses. I emailed them to be a part of the beta, they said essentially "Eh, no, that reason isn't that great -- but we'll put you on the wait list for 1000 bucks for commercial units." Eh, no. So I bought a cheap sip/puff switch for use with a power wheelchair, use it as a binary switch along with an arduino, and the welder itself is set to pulse/ramp itself to take care of the gradual application. It works, but I sure wish I could have had the more finite control -- but i'll wait until someone doesn't gouge me for the work. I'm not into the whole medical premium thing. If anyone else is in that situation I suggest they look at low voltage membrane switches with an isolated carrier or any of the various sip/puff devices out there that have dwindled in cost due to volume and time. No, that doesn't offer the same capability -- but maybe you don't need it to.
- invalidator 3y agoBen over at Applied Science did a great video of his quest to build an analog bite sensor for a musician. It would be easy to adapt it to work as a TIG controller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag_p8gayrTs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag_p8gayrTs
- nimbius 3y agoAnd yet somehow the idea that a third installment of the half life series is even possible is a distant fantasy.
- bloopernova 3y agoI thought that the teledildonics industry would have figured this out first. Glad to see that it can help disabled folks though.
- KennyBlanken 3y agoThere's some patent trolls sitting on patents related to 'teledildonics' and it's largely stagnated things.
- hinkley 3y agoAll I can think of is Yondo from Guardians of the Galaxy.
- jauntywundrkind 3y agoIt'd be interesting to find solutions to tongue position detection that didn't require contact with a specific surface. Maybe we send small electrical pulses out from a under tongue transducer & then wear sensors that like a touchscreen triangulate where the activation site is. What if we could make a tooth a small low res camera & just watch? What's here feels like a really small specific range here. It certainly has uses. I imagine more fast-task use if there were a sensor that detects more natural tongue gestures around the mouth.
- tomasero 3y agoThat's an interesting idea! Currently, our MouthPad^ employs a capacitive trackpad, which we're working on to enhance sensitivity for 3D tongue tracking. It's somewhat akin to a low-resolution camera – it's effective, but there's room for improvement. Using that same technology, we're also trying to unlock whispering speech and eventually moving towards fully silent speech capabilities. This will expand the range of intuitive interactions possible with the MouthPad^. We totally agree — smart teeth are the future. We're looking into developing a 'smart tooth' that could use radar technology for precise tongue tracking. It's a futuristic idea, but that's the direction we're aiming for!
- rkagerer 3y agoI've been told of all the muscles in your body, your tongue is the most resistant to developing repetitive strain injury (RSI). When I was in school I prototyped a simple tongue switch using a flex sensor (idea is it would be coated in a biocompatible, foodsafe material) to replace the mouse button.
- Der_Einzige 3y ago[flagged]
- CafeRacer 3y agoThat's such a great idea and I'm sure it could help a lot of people!... as well as a surge of cunnilingus training apps.
- beepbooptheory 3y agoYou gotta stick your tongue out of your mouth for that.
- Tao3300 3y agoSpecial thanks to cannibalXxx for sharing this today!
- jojobas 3y agoSomething similar was created in the field of teledildonics a while ago.
- Gigablah 3y agoThe return of the joystick
- xtagon 3y agoPaywalled so if the article already mentions this I wouldn't know, but just going off "scroll" the title, I wonder if this would pair well with Dasher as an input method to replace typing with a keyboard.
- smeej 3y agoAs a child, I had to wear a horrible orthodontic device called a bionator that forced me to learn to speak with my jaw closed, navigating my tongue around a formidable hunk of plastic and metal to make myself intelligible at all. (It took two weeks to figure out how to swallow and stop drooling on myself.) Little did I know I was being prepared for the newest cursor control development 30+ years in the future. I'll be one of the only people who can use this thing and carry on a conversation at the same time!
- swader999 3y agoYou can already do face gestures in Mac which shouldn't be hard to send scroll commands with.
- tomasero 3y agoCo-founder of Augmental here. I really appreciate your kind comments. It's been a four-year journey to get here, and we're thankful for the amazing people who've helped us along the way. Feel free to shoot any questions you have my way!
- al_borland 3y agoThis very cool and looks like it will help a lot of people. Have you given any thought to the upcoming Vision Pro? I’m guessing it may depend on how it’s received by the public, if it’s worth putting the time into, but with its eye tracking and simple finger tap input, I’m thinking replacing the finger tap with a tongue tap would make for a pretty great experience.
- tomasero 3y agoThanks for your enthusiasm and insight! We're in talks with Apple about integrating the MouthPad^ with the Vision Pro. The goal is to pair our tech with their eye-tracking system, offering a hands-free alternative for clicks and gestures currently done by hand. Also, as more AR headsets become common, hands-free solutions will be crucial. Traditional hand tracking for clicking isn't always reliable, as hands might not be in the camera's view. The MouthPad^ could provide a consistent way to interact with these technologies, making computing more inclusive.
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoI cannot wait to see what colab people come up with to integrate your device with a head-tracking mouse, e.g. TrackerPro by AbleNet? Haven't looked in to your product at all, but am trying to help an eighty year old genius succumbing to Parkinsonism.
- tomasero 3y agoThat's a great idea! We're currently beta testing head tracking on the MouthPad^, which is aimed at improving upon traditional head tracking methods. This feature lets users recenter the tracker by simply placing their tongue on the trackpad, making navigation more intuitive and less fatiguing by reducing neck movements. We're excited about the potential of the MouthPad^ to help people with various motor abilities. Its broad range of functionalities could be particularly helpful for individuals with conditions like Parkinson's.
- niconico21 3y agoThis is what you get when you think of HCI holistically.
- mentos 3y agoI'm looking for recommendations on eye tracking technology. My primary concern is with the current solutions' lack of precision and resolution. I'm considering a hybrid approach, where eye tracking is combined with mouse movements for improved accuracy. The idea is to use eye tracking to set an initial anchor point on the screen, and then use the mouse to fine-tune the position from that point. For example, if I look at the 'X' button at the top right of a window, the system sets the focus there. This anchor point remains static as long as my gaze stays within a predefined area (like a 3-inch box around the anchor). The anchor point updates only when I shift my gaze to a different area of the screen. Any insights or recommendations on this approach or other effective eye tracking solutions would be greatly appreciated.
- userbinator 3y agoIn your mouth, you can now have regular teeth... and Bluetooth.
- maxglute 3y ago>Professionals who use their hands a lot, like mechanics or surgeons, have shown interest in the device. The company has also talked with astronauts who would like to try it out at the International Space Station. I'd be that guy using it public transit during winter because I don't want to take my gloves off. I remember "mentally designing" something like this when I was a teen. I had a weird mouth guard with a flat surface that covered back of upper and lower teeth that I would glide my tongue on, pretending to be a cursor, and then click on my canine tips together for left and right click because I thought that would be more precise. Now I occasionally think about eye tracking to move cursor and teeth clicking to tap.
- ozyschmozy 3y agoIn case you're not joking about public transit and gloves, you can get gloves with pads on the fingertips that allow you to use touch screens. And if your gloves don't have it, there are pads you can stick on or liquids you can apply to make existing gloves touch screen compatible.
- maxglute 3y agoNot joking. Touchscreen friendly gloves mistaps too frequently, especially thumbs in one hand mode - essential when standing in transit. My solution is pair of thin, very well form fitting glove liners underneath gloves. Or using a stylus. Both of which requires two hands. Hence very specific day dreaming about controlling phone with eyes and mouth. I will give the liquid a try though. I have some nice fit old leather gloves that aren't touch screen compatible.