7 ms·

Evernote CEO to entrepreneurs: "don't do it"

132 points by Liu 14y ago

jpdoctor 14y ago
> A lot of people think that they want to be an entrepreneur because it’s a good way to make money. It just isn’t, that’s just wrong. Depending on how you count, 95% to 99% of companies fail. Bubbles like the one we have now are not common. It will continue until the Fed takes away the punchbowl, so make hay while the sun shines (and mix those metaphors while the mixing is good.)
- anon01 14y ago
  What about the entrepreneurs who pay themselves ridiculous salaries once they get even a little funding? It seems like a great way to make money. Our founder is the highest paid person in the company and we live one month at a time because of it. Is this common during the bubble, or is my situation unique? Highest paid is fact, one month at a time is opinion.
  - ericflo 14y ago
    That is not normal, and a very bad sign.
  - jpdoctor 14y ago
    > Is this common during the bubble Yes. We saw it a bunch during Bubble v1. I thought it was nuts then: Weren't the people/VCs supplying the money paying attention? After a while, you realize that easy money covers up a lot of sins over several levels of the foodchain. When money tightens, those sins will be expurgated, but until then: Party on. EDIT: To expand a bit, it's not "normal" as ericflo says in another reply and I agree it's a "bad" sign. I'm just pointing out that as long as those supplying the money are seeing positive returns, they're busy working their other opportunities. When Sequoia republishes "RIP: Good Times", out comes the microscope on spending and board meetings will go over details that were ignored before.
wslh 14y ago
Regarding "Flex time" it is nice to also compare with the other extreme "On managing my time" by Martin Varsavsky: http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/new-ideas/on-managing-my-time.html http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/new-ideas/on-managing-my-...
wsc981 14y ago
As someone who's about to become an entrepreneur, my reasons are: - Money: I do believe I can make a lot of money with the company I intend to start, but I should say I'm not going to start anything revolutionary, just corner a part of the market where there's a big demand (mobile development by contract). It should make me more money in less time then my current job does. - Flextime: I'm a bit of a work-a-holic so I'm kinda used to working 6 days a week. Most of the time I enjoy it. What I don't enjoy in a regular job is the fact that my employer wants me to work from 9 to 5. I'd like to be able to go jogging and shopping in the afternoon for example and continue some work early in the evening. - Fun: I enjoy short-term projects (1 to 2 months) more then long-term projects (1 year or more). - Power: well, with power I mostly think about the power to choose my own working processes and tools and not be limited with what my manager decides upon. For example: I'm not very fond of many aspects of SCRUM, but it seems kinda popular these days.
- larrys 14y ago
  Would love to know why your comment was being downvoted.
jfernandez 14y ago
This article's title is misleading, it should read more like "...Don't do it for the wrong reasons" as he explains in the actual post. Beyond these reasons there are tons of people who want to make a company because: - They will offer something novel or fresh - They have the passion to change an industry that has otherwise been stagnant - They want to offer choice or competition for a product that has been relatively monopolized - And to a smaller degree if they're outside of the NYC/SF area, bring the tech scene to other areas of the world
- tensor 14y ago
  I think all of these reasons are good and fall under the "change the world" reason outlined in the article. People seem to be misinterpreting the article by assuming that these can't be factors at all. It's pretty clear that everyone needs an income. These should be interpreted as primary reasons and that I agree with completely. If your primary goal is to make yourself money or get power, it is guaranteed that the rest of your company does not share your vision and if they knew about it, they would probably try to find other jobs.
- lusr 14y ago
  It's more than that. He's conflating personal motivation with business model validation. Yes your business model should be validated, but what's wrong with pursuing money? My goal has long been to work on my interests without having to worry about money. But to do so requires financial independence. That's reality. So now I'm pursuing money and looking at ways of generating income without selling my time. Is there any real evidence to show that people who pursue money don't end up successful? I doubt it.
  - Mz 14y ago
    Is there any real evidence to show that people who pursue money don't end up successful? I once read that the 2% of people in some defined group who set financial goals outperformed the other 98% combined.
runako 14y ago
> If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive, if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something. This sounds like terrible advice for someone who is not motivated to do the work of a banker or investor or consultant. I've seen many exceptionally driven people lose their drive when employed at the wrong occupation.
jwoah12 14y ago
> But there’s only one good, legitimate reason, and I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world. I think this is going overboard. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to want to start his/her own company for less noble reasons than "changing the world." This advises people to not give it a shot at all. Would I like to change the world? Yes, I would. Do I reasonably expect that it will happen? No, I'm more realistic than that. While I'm still young and don't have much tying me down, though, I want to give it a shot. I'd much rather try, fail, and then have to go back to the workforce than wind up staying the workforce my whole life regretting not trying to start my own thing. I suppose you could make the argument that any successful company will have to add value to the world in some way, and adding value to the world changes it, but that isn't the way the statement reads.
larrys 14y ago
"A lot of people think that they want to be an entrepreneur because it’s a good way to make money. It just isn’t, that’s just wrong. Depending on how you count, 95% to 99% of companies fail." Excuse me. It is a way to make money. That figure assumes the definition of entrepreneur is only startups as discussed in places like HN, Techcrunch etc. Not only is the figure of 95% or 99% wrong with respect to "entrepreneurs" (unless of course you increase the time to, say, 100 years at which case it may be true across the board) but its like saying "don't apply to Harvard or YC because the chance...". It doesn't take into account any particular persons idea or qualifications to be a success. But most importantly, the definition of being an entrepreneur also includes running a small restaurant or opening a physical warehouse and selling exercise equipment or starting a website to sell new and used office desks or a million other ideas that will never make it to HN or TC that can make you a good living.
- jpdoctor 14y ago
  > Not only is the figure of 95% or 99% wrong with respect to "entrepreneurs" I believe he's quoting numbers from Shikhar Ghosh at HBS. Here's one article that google brought up with a little more detail about how "failure" is defined: The statistics are disheartening no matter how an entrepreneur defines failure. If failure means liquidating all assets, with investors losing most or all the money they put into the company, then the failure rate for start-ups is 30 to 40 percent, according to Shikhar Ghosh, a senior lecturer at Harvard Business School who has held top executive positions at some eight technology-based start-ups. If failure refers to failing to see the projected return on investment, then the failure rate is 70 to 80 percent. And if failure is defined as declaring a projection and then falling short of meeting it, then the failure rate is a whopping 90 to 95 percent. http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6591.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6591.html
  - mediaman 14y ago
    Great detail on the source of that stat. The use of that 90-95 percent metric is next to meaningless in defining failure rates of startups. There are tons of successful companies generating great returns who have not met the initial projections, because initial projections tend to be unrealistic. I founded a startup that's profitable and doing $5mm in revenue but would be considered a "failure" because at the beginning we played the hockeystick revenue projection dance (partly to appease potential investors, who discount whatever number you give them anyway, and partly because we were wildly optimistic).
mmukhin 14y ago
Troll or motivation by saying "rest of you can't do what I did." Sounds like a troll.
larrys 14y ago
"I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world" This is such hogwash and brainwashing. People have to earn money and make a living. Nothing wrong with that at all. And if you want to change the world you have a better chance after earning a load of money. There are people who have gone into medicine to make money (and not better the world and save lives) and are great physicians and provide a service. And they live in big houses have expensive things and enjoy themselves. That's fine. Nothing to apologize about. Same with entrepreneurship or any pursuit (education).
- ramblerman 14y ago
  Nowhere in the article was "earning money" chastised as being bad. It just suggested there are better options if that is your main goal. "If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive, if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something. You’ll be much more likely to make a lot of money over the course of your career than by starting a company."
  - larrys 14y ago
    "It just suggested there are better options if that is your main goal" Totally depends on the person. I visited my dentist the other day who clearly didn't have a business head on him (we've spoken many times). He is better off and will make a better living as a dentist giving his intelligence and abilities. I'm married to a Physician and wanted to set her up in her own office. She isn't interested, she would rather just work for the Hospital and get a salary. Everyone is different. The best option for a particular person to make money depends on the persona and their abilities. As an aside, as far as being a "consultant". In general (as always) a consultant doesn't really build any equity unless they have others working for them. They don't have anything to sell (to someone else as an entity) and over time need to constantly pick up clients and interact with clients. I built a business and after 10 years I had something to sell. It was something that didn't depend on me it had customers, employees etc.
  - lusr 14y ago
antidaily 14y ago
"you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something" yeah, consulting. the pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. but at least you have a nice salary to pay back your MBA student loans. and you get to travel every week and get fat eating out every meal and drinking at networking events.
- carguy1983 14y ago
  A good way to start a career, not a very good way to live though.
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  In direct contrast to software jobs, where you can stay very healthy by spending an hour in the gym every day after sitting in a cubicle for your 10-hour workday.
  - dasil003 14y ago
    If you eat well and go to the gym for an intense (ie. not just jogging on the treadmill) 1-hour workout every day, I think you'll be in quite decent shape.
    - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
      Actually, no. Sitting for large periods of time, past a certain age as I remember, is simply harmful to your health. You can't "make it up" with exercise later in the day.
      - dasil003 14y ago
        You don't make it up the negative effect of sitting, but you'll be in generally better shape, perhaps by a greater margin than someone who never sits but also never gets any strenuous exercise.
carguy1983 14y ago
Ooh, me, me, pick me. Let me guess! Do it because you want to change the world? It's a laughable, tired cliche now, especially coming from a guy who made the equivalent of a digital hipster moleskine who isn't changing a god damn thing about this world. People are still broke, sick, and starving. But I can take awesome notes on my MacBook Air! The better answer is "because it's interesting and fun and challenging and sometimes disappointing and a fantastic learning experience and you might get rich or go broke while experiencing the full, unfiltered range of human emotions and potential". It also happens to be more truthful and conforms more to the modal outcome.
- jmcannon 14y ago
  "because it's interesting and fun and challenging and sometimes disappointing and a fantastic learning experience and you might get rich or go broke while experiencing the full, unfiltered range of human emotions and potential" This is one of the best articulations of why I'm an entrepreneur that I've read. Thanks.
  - lusr 14y ago
    Absolutely agreed. All I know is I will COMPLETELY lose my mind if I'm still working for somebody else (as a contractor or employee) in 5 years; his advice to stick with the paying job while figuring out what you want doesn't address what to do when your repeated conclusion after all the thinking is: "work for myself, build out my ideas". The only way to deal with this conclusion is to act: to go out there and experience working for yourself, and test your instincts and savy against reality. I don't care whether my projects succeed or fail at this point; I'm just happy I'm focused on exploring my potential and my desires. I still have the day job, for security and capital, and I have only chosen to pursue ideas that DO impact people's lives (otherwise why would people use it?); none of this stuff is mutually exclusive!
  - tedmiston 14y ago
    See: thrill.
- guelo 14y ago
ngsayjoe 14y ago
My number 1 reason to be an entrepreneur is freedom, and money is the means to freedom ...
grannyg00se 14y ago
A true entrepreneur wouldn't be dissuaded by somebody else's "don't do it" advice.
MicahWedemeyer 14y ago
I wonder how many of these speeches are motivated by salesmanship? Like, Do it because you've got a decent idea and you kinda think it might work and maybe you'll make a little bit of money just doesn't have the same ring to it as Go change the world, kid! So, in order to get invited (or invited back) to speak in front of 100s of people and plug your product/company, you change your speech (and backstory) until it fits the mantra-du-jour. 3 years ago, the speech would be "Fail Fast". A year ago, it would be "Learn to Pivot". Today, it's "Change the World!" As others have mentioned here, Evernote is not really an earth-shattering, universe-changing product. That's perfectly OK in my book, but own up to that fact. It's tiresome to hear people rewrite history and their own motivations just to sell themselves.
mcbaby 14y ago
Evernote is obviously a very successful company, and I'm sure Phil Libin is a smart guy, but he comes off as a total snob saying this... > "I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world" Most people who start a company start it to MAKE MONEY. Of course, he presents us with a false dilemma: you can either aspire to change the world, or have the desire to make money, earn power, etc. These are not mutually exclusive options. It's noble and all to want to change the world, but most people probably are out there trying to make a living... > "If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive, if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something." I'd be fine with this if he finished the sentence with "become something you're passionate about." If you have all the qualities he mentions in the first part of the sentence, than pursue something you're genuinely interested in. As a side note, I'd be interested to see a list of some entrepreneurs who started companies with the sole intention of changing the world...
reason 14y ago
People in this space live in a thickly-lined bubble if they think something like Evernote is changing the world. Wisdom is not suddenly bestowed upon you because your note-taking service was recently valued at $1+ billion. I have always had a really hard time heeding to the advice of rich people who tell you what all the right and wrong reasons to become an entrepreneur are, especially when they start preaching about how it's not about the money, but about the journey. Also, "don't do it"? I'm sure companies that are having 100x more of an impact in this world than Evernote will ever have were started by people who very bluntly went against that sort of advice. Steve Jobs' "Stay hungry, stay foolish" comes to mind, and I'll side with his blissfully ignorant optimism any day.
- dublinclontarf 14y ago
  I don't know...Evenote is actually the ONLY service online I have ever paid for.
- dublinclontarf 14y ago
  I don't know...Evernote is actually the ONLY service online I have ever paid for.
  - carguy1983 14y ago
    I'm 100% sure you're wrong.
- philaquilina 14y ago
  I think you are thinking of "change the world" in the "topple bad governments, empower the meek, help make this world a utopia" type of way. Evernote is changing the world. If you make 30 million people's lives just a tad bit easier, then yes, you've changed the world. If you've caused other companies to take note and copy your business strategy/idea and THEY make people's lives easier, then yes you've changed the world. Yes, he's rich, but I think he's saying that was a side effect of purer motivations. If you're in it to be rich, then you're in it for the wrong reasons. If you're in it create an amazing product and be impactful on a stranger's life, then you're in it for the right reasons. Just my take. Could be wrong.
muhfuhkuh 14y ago
Or, if you really want to change the world, alleviate the spectre of massive world hunger by coming up with radical agricultural techniques and selective breeding for drought resistance, then teach that technique to everyone you know for free[1]. Or, come up with a novel vaccine for one of our most vexing diseases of our time, then give away the formulation for free[2]. That's how you change the world. Cue the capitalism-as-religion downvote squad, but this guy is a world class putz if he thinks a cloud-based notepad is changing anything but 1st world slight inconvenience. [1]Norman Borlaug [2]Jonas Salk
- vibrunazo 14y ago
  If instead of "do it to change the world", he had said "do it to build something cool". Then would you have agreed? I personally still wouldn't. But it seems there are a lot of people cherry-picking with this "world" hyperbole and ignoring his actual point.
- astine 14y ago
  While those men did great things, who actually implemented their discoveries? Drug and biotech companies. Businesses have their place too.
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  Quite fully agreed. Capitalism repeats itself first as tragedy, then as Silicon Valley farce.
rexreed 14y ago
Who doesn't start a business thinking they're going to make money? Wouldn't it otherwise be called charity or a hobby? Sure, maybe not hogwild money, but I think getting paid for something for delivering something of value might be a definition of business?
jakejake 14y ago
I don't think this advice applies to every type of business. Particularly service-oriented startups that are able to land paying clients right from the beginning. I will agree though that working at a company that isn't financially stable is not a good place for someone who needs financial stability. Imagine your boss telling you that your next paycheck will only be half - or they can't pay it at all, but you'll get paid back later. Imagine that happening occasionally throughout the year. Add to that a constant, looming feeling that your company could go out of business any day even though you love working there. If those kinds of things upset or stress you out then a startup probably isn't a good place to work.
kreutz 14y ago
What else are we suppose to do?
- inafield 14y ago
  We're supposed to be his employees instead of challenging him in a crowded market. This way he makes more money from ideas we might have put forward and each one of us is one less competitor for him. Really though, if an entrepreneur is going to be dissuaded by this speech, they probably shouldn't be trying in the first place.
aguynamedrich 14y ago
Reasons not to listen to this guy: 1. Not all CEO's work 20 hour days, and he probably doesn't either 2. Starting your own company can give you the ability to challenge the outdated 9-to-5 sit-at-your-desk status quo more than working for someone else can 3. His skewed view of upcoming entrepreneurs as only the subset that bother him for advice doesn't reflect on you or your ability to successfully launch your own business 4. Seriously, Evernote? It's cloud data with a bow around it. 5. Working long hours doesn't mean slaving away at the office for long hours, it means that you're always "on". If you start a business around something you're passionate about, you'll be thinking about it all day anyway. 6. Ryan Carson just told us last week that he works 32 hours a week, and his company impacts the world a whole lot more than Evernote IMO (subjective, yes, but Treehouse and Carsonified educate and connect people in a way they couldn't have done otherwise, whereas you can eliminate the need for Evernote by creating a folder or two on Dropbox). 7. If you fail, you can always try again and/or re-join the work force. 8. Most people would feel a lot better about trying and failing than not trying at all. And the number one reason I'd say this video should be completely ignored is that you might actually succeed. This video tells me very little about entrepreneurship. The real message is that Evernote is run by a pretty unlikeable guy who would advise you, without getting to know you, to be a working stiff your entire life instead of taking chances. Advice that he obviously would not have taken himself.
stevewilhelm 14y ago
"Seven out of 10 new employer firms survive at least 2 years, half at least 5 years, a third at least 10 years, and a quarter stay in business 15 years or more." - According to the US SBA http://s831.us/IXGBFK http://s831.us/IXGBFK
sundeep_b 14y ago
It felt like I was a fresher listening to a senior at college doing the raw talk about the truths at college. You might not like them at first, but you will realize utterly that they are the truths and might even find yourself saying the same to another fellow, a different day. I couldn't agree with everything though - Evernote is second brain of the universe? Is it not under rating the human brain? Human brain is capable of many amazing things. If I am going to hear some one call something a second brain, it should be able to take decisions. Evernote is only a digital notebook that is accessible from many platforms keeping all the users away from a lot of dirty work(copying, syncing, etc.). That's it. I don't think that could ever CHANGE THE WORLD. That will only MAKE MY LIFE EASIER. I could even argue that entrepreneurship is more about MAKING MY LIFE EASIER than about CHANGING THE WORLD. When I get five minutes of waiting time, I don't open evernote to write something or read something. I open my twitter account and follow up with the links on hackernewsbot and few other tweets from people I like. That makes me feel productive. If I don't feel like reading technical things, I open my facebook and check what my friends are upto and I still feel productive.
tlogan 14y ago
Starting a company should be about making money. There are also other reasons but I think they should be considered as secondary.
jganetsk 14y ago
I hear this exact message a million times on Hacker News: a speech from an entrepreneur discouraging others to be like him/her... unless they are really serious about it. This is played to the point of cliche. For once, I'd love to see an article entitled "don't do it" and really actually mean it.
javajosh 14y ago
I love Evernote. It has changed my life. Before, I didn't have anywhere to put all the ideas, insights, jokes, and stories I had in my head. Now, with one key from anywhere I can get it out of my head and the feeling is incredible. But, fuck the CEO of Evernote. How dare he tell people not to start a company? Not only is it idiotic (I mean, first and foremost, he did it so he's a hypocrit; but secondly, someone started every company that exists. So if people actually followed his advice we'd be stuck with the current crop of companies...forever) but it's downright evil. To discourage people from starting companies is to discourage people from building, from creating, from giving form to their dreams. And that's inexcusable. tl;dr Evernote is great; the CEO is a fuckwit. EDIT: I got my first downvote, but I don't care. Discouraging people from creating is evil, and when confronting evil there's no place for 'nice'.
dizidoro 14y ago
If you are trying to change the world for no specific reason, you are probably megalomaniac. You have a much better chance to change the world if you are doing something you love rather than actually trying to change the world, plus you got the "bonus" of being happy. I believe you can do something only for money, just don't waste all your life on it.
famousactress 14y ago
IMHO the article misses the best part of the talk (in the middle somewhere). Ironically, given the "don't do it" bit.. Libin makes the point that now's a better time than ever to be an entrepreneur, and among the usual OSS/StuffsCheapNow points, he concludes that today the best product is more likely to 'win' than it has been in the past... Especially in the consumer space. Further pointing out that this essentially creates a meritocracy for people who are good at making things (even if they suck at sales/marketing). The talk is definitely better than the flamebait title.
drinkwhat 14y ago
I think he is just scared of others that might come up something thats better than Evernote.
tgrass 14y ago
I don't know anyone who makes more than $500K a year. Everyone I know who makes more than $60K a year running their own business, says their only regret is not starting earlier.
niels_olson 14y ago
> Power ... join the military Actually, I'm a mid grade officer in the Navy; I was recently told I was "part of the seniority plan" in my unit. I knew where Libin was going with that as soon as I read the subtitle. I answer to everyone!
mvkel 14y ago
I'm not sure what the point of this talk is. Are people supposed to walk away, saying "wow, that was inspiring!" If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all. Entrepreneurship is very much an individual sport in that there are no hard and fast rules. Take all advice with a grain of pepper.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
gexla 14y ago
Reason to do it: Because you have to. When all else fails, your only option my be to hustle up your own work. For the thousands of people in the U.S. who have been unemployed for over a year, do it! I'm another example, I live in the Philippines but I can't work here because I'm a U.S. citizen, so my only option is running my own business.
jzycrzy 14y ago
Who's the audience? Sounds to me like he's looking for employees who will take a piece of changing the world (equity?) over cold hard cash. Based on all the talkers I hear, and the positive feedback they constantly get about how "cool" it is that they want to be an entrepreneur.. I think a good hard "don't do it" would be helpful fire under their butts to JFDI.
mathinker 14y ago
please take this note: CUT THE CRAP

132 points by Liu 14y ago

> A lot of people think that they want to be an entrepreneur because it’s a good way to make money. It just isn’t, that’s just wrong. Depending on how you count, 95% to 99% of companies fail. Bubbles like the one we have now are not common. It will continue until the Fed takes away the punchbowl, so make hay while the sun shines (and mix those metaphors while the mixing is good.)

anon01 14y ago
What about the entrepreneurs who pay themselves ridiculous salaries once they get even a little funding? It seems like a great way to make money. Our founder is the highest paid person in the company and we live one month at a time because of it. Is this common during the bubble, or is my situation unique? Highest paid is fact, one month at a time is opinion.
- ericflo 14y ago
  That is not normal, and a very bad sign.
- jpdoctor 14y ago
  > Is this common during the bubble Yes. We saw it a bunch during Bubble v1. I thought it was nuts then: Weren't the people/VCs supplying the money paying attention? After a while, you realize that easy money covers up a lot of sins over several levels of the foodchain. When money tightens, those sins will be expurgated, but until then: Party on. EDIT: To expand a bit, it's not "normal" as ericflo says in another reply and I agree it's a "bad" sign. I'm just pointing out that as long as those supplying the money are seeing positive returns, they're busy working their other opportunities. When Sequoia republishes "RIP: Good Times", out comes the microscope on spending and board meetings will go over details that were ignored before.

wslh 14y ago

Regarding "Flex time" it is nice to also compare with the other extreme "On managing my time" by Martin Varsavsky: http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/new-ideas/on-managing-my-time.html http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/new-ideas/on-managing-my-...

wsc981 14y ago

As someone who's about to become an entrepreneur, my reasons are: - Money: I do believe I can make a lot of money with the company I intend to start, but I should say I'm not going to start anything revolutionary, just corner a part of the market where there's a big demand (mobile development by contract). It should make me more money in less time then my current job does. - Flextime: I'm a bit of a work-a-holic so I'm kinda used to working 6 days a week. Most of the time I enjoy it. What I don't enjoy in a regular job is the fact that my employer wants me to work from 9 to 5. I'd like to be able to go jogging and shopping in the afternoon for example and continue some work early in the evening. - Fun: I enjoy short-term projects (1 to 2 months) more then long-term projects (1 year or more). - Power: well, with power I mostly think about the power to choose my own working processes and tools and not be limited with what my manager decides upon. For example: I'm not very fond of many aspects of SCRUM, but it seems kinda popular these days.

larrys 14y ago
Would love to know why your comment was being downvoted.

jfernandez 14y ago

This article's title is misleading, it should read more like "...Don't do it for the wrong reasons" as he explains in the actual post. Beyond these reasons there are tons of people who want to make a company because: - They will offer something novel or fresh - They have the passion to change an industry that has otherwise been stagnant - They want to offer choice or competition for a product that has been relatively monopolized - And to a smaller degree if they're outside of the NYC/SF area, bring the tech scene to other areas of the world

tensor 14y ago
I think all of these reasons are good and fall under the "change the world" reason outlined in the article. People seem to be misinterpreting the article by assuming that these can't be factors at all. It's pretty clear that everyone needs an income. These should be interpreted as primary reasons and that I agree with completely. If your primary goal is to make yourself money or get power, it is guaranteed that the rest of your company does not share your vision and if they knew about it, they would probably try to find other jobs.
lusr 14y ago
It's more than that. He's conflating personal motivation with business model validation. Yes your business model should be validated, but what's wrong with pursuing money? My goal has long been to work on my interests without having to worry about money. But to do so requires financial independence. That's reality. So now I'm pursuing money and looking at ways of generating income without selling my time. Is there any real evidence to show that people who pursue money don't end up successful? I doubt it.
- Mz 14y ago
  Is there any real evidence to show that people who pursue money don't end up successful? I once read that the 2% of people in some defined group who set financial goals outperformed the other 98% combined.

runako 14y ago

> If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive, if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something. This sounds like terrible advice for someone who is not motivated to do the work of a banker or investor or consultant. I've seen many exceptionally driven people lose their drive when employed at the wrong occupation.

jwoah12 14y ago

> But there’s only one good, legitimate reason, and I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world. I think this is going overboard. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to want to start his/her own company for less noble reasons than "changing the world." This advises people to not give it a shot at all. Would I like to change the world? Yes, I would. Do I reasonably expect that it will happen? No, I'm more realistic than that. While I'm still young and don't have much tying me down, though, I want to give it a shot. I'd much rather try, fail, and then have to go back to the workforce than wind up staying the workforce my whole life regretting not trying to start my own thing. I suppose you could make the argument that any successful company will have to add value to the world in some way, and adding value to the world changes it, but that isn't the way the statement reads.

larrys 14y ago

"A lot of people think that they want to be an entrepreneur because it’s a good way to make money. It just isn’t, that’s just wrong. Depending on how you count, 95% to 99% of companies fail." Excuse me. It is a way to make money. That figure assumes the definition of entrepreneur is only startups as discussed in places like HN, Techcrunch etc. Not only is the figure of 95% or 99% wrong with respect to "entrepreneurs" (unless of course you increase the time to, say, 100 years at which case it may be true across the board) but its like saying "don't apply to Harvard or YC because the chance...". It doesn't take into account any particular persons idea or qualifications to be a success. But most importantly, the definition of being an entrepreneur also includes running a small restaurant or opening a physical warehouse and selling exercise equipment or starting a website to sell new and used office desks or a million other ideas that will never make it to HN or TC that can make you a good living.

jpdoctor 14y ago
> Not only is the figure of 95% or 99% wrong with respect to "entrepreneurs" I believe he's quoting numbers from Shikhar Ghosh at HBS. Here's one article that google brought up with a little more detail about how "failure" is defined: The statistics are disheartening no matter how an entrepreneur defines failure. If failure means liquidating all assets, with investors losing most or all the money they put into the company, then the failure rate for start-ups is 30 to 40 percent, according to Shikhar Ghosh, a senior lecturer at Harvard Business School who has held top executive positions at some eight technology-based start-ups. If failure refers to failing to see the projected return on investment, then the failure rate is 70 to 80 percent. And if failure is defined as declaring a projection and then falling short of meeting it, then the failure rate is a whopping 90 to 95 percent. http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6591.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6591.html
- mediaman 14y ago
  Great detail on the source of that stat. The use of that 90-95 percent metric is next to meaningless in defining failure rates of startups. There are tons of successful companies generating great returns who have not met the initial projections, because initial projections tend to be unrealistic. I founded a startup that's profitable and doing $5mm in revenue but would be considered a "failure" because at the beginning we played the hockeystick revenue projection dance (partly to appease potential investors, who discount whatever number you give them anyway, and partly because we were wildly optimistic).

mmukhin 14y ago

Troll or motivation by saying "rest of you can't do what I did." Sounds like a troll.

larrys 14y ago

"I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world" This is such hogwash and brainwashing. People have to earn money and make a living. Nothing wrong with that at all. And if you want to change the world you have a better chance after earning a load of money. There are people who have gone into medicine to make money (and not better the world and save lives) and are great physicians and provide a service. And they live in big houses have expensive things and enjoy themselves. That's fine. Nothing to apologize about. Same with entrepreneurship or any pursuit (education).

ramblerman 14y ago
Nowhere in the article was "earning money" chastised as being bad. It just suggested there are better options if that is your main goal. "If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive, if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something. You’ll be much more likely to make a lot of money over the course of your career than by starting a company."
- larrys 14y ago
  "It just suggested there are better options if that is your main goal" Totally depends on the person. I visited my dentist the other day who clearly didn't have a business head on him (we've spoken many times). He is better off and will make a better living as a dentist giving his intelligence and abilities. I'm married to a Physician and wanted to set her up in her own office. She isn't interested, she would rather just work for the Hospital and get a salary. Everyone is different. The best option for a particular person to make money depends on the persona and their abilities. As an aside, as far as being a "consultant". In general (as always) a consultant doesn't really build any equity unless they have others working for them. They don't have anything to sell (to someone else as an entity) and over time need to constantly pick up clients and interact with clients. I built a business and after 10 years I had something to sell. It was something that didn't depend on me it had customers, employees etc.
- lusr 14y ago

antidaily 14y ago

"you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something" yeah, consulting. the pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. but at least you have a nice salary to pay back your MBA student loans. and you get to travel every week and get fat eating out every meal and drinking at networking events.

carguy1983 14y ago
A good way to start a career, not a very good way to live though.
eli_gottlieb 14y ago
In direct contrast to software jobs, where you can stay very healthy by spending an hour in the gym every day after sitting in a cubicle for your 10-hour workday.
- dasil003 14y ago
  If you eat well and go to the gym for an intense (ie. not just jogging on the treadmill) 1-hour workout every day, I think you'll be in quite decent shape.
  - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
    Actually, no. Sitting for large periods of time, past a certain age as I remember, is simply harmful to your health. You can't "make it up" with exercise later in the day.
    - dasil003 14y ago
      You don't make it up the negative effect of sitting, but you'll be in generally better shape, perhaps by a greater margin than someone who never sits but also never gets any strenuous exercise.

carguy1983 14y ago

Ooh, me, me, pick me. Let me guess! Do it because you want to change the world? It's a laughable, tired cliche now, especially coming from a guy who made the equivalent of a digital hipster moleskine who isn't changing a god damn thing about this world. People are still broke, sick, and starving. But I can take awesome notes on my MacBook Air! The better answer is "because it's interesting and fun and challenging and sometimes disappointing and a fantastic learning experience and you might get rich or go broke while experiencing the full, unfiltered range of human emotions and potential". It also happens to be more truthful and conforms more to the modal outcome.

jmcannon 14y ago
"because it's interesting and fun and challenging and sometimes disappointing and a fantastic learning experience and you might get rich or go broke while experiencing the full, unfiltered range of human emotions and potential" This is one of the best articulations of why I'm an entrepreneur that I've read. Thanks.
- lusr 14y ago
  Absolutely agreed. All I know is I will COMPLETELY lose my mind if I'm still working for somebody else (as a contractor or employee) in 5 years; his advice to stick with the paying job while figuring out what you want doesn't address what to do when your repeated conclusion after all the thinking is: "work for myself, build out my ideas". The only way to deal with this conclusion is to act: to go out there and experience working for yourself, and test your instincts and savy against reality. I don't care whether my projects succeed or fail at this point; I'm just happy I'm focused on exploring my potential and my desires. I still have the day job, for security and capital, and I have only chosen to pursue ideas that DO impact people's lives (otherwise why would people use it?); none of this stuff is mutually exclusive!
- tedmiston 14y ago
  See: thrill.
guelo 14y ago

ngsayjoe 14y ago

My number 1 reason to be an entrepreneur is freedom, and money is the means to freedom ...

grannyg00se 14y ago

A true entrepreneur wouldn't be dissuaded by somebody else's "don't do it" advice.

MicahWedemeyer 14y ago

I wonder how many of these speeches are motivated by salesmanship? Like, Do it because you've got a decent idea and you kinda think it might work and maybe you'll make a little bit of money just doesn't have the same ring to it as Go change the world, kid! So, in order to get invited (or invited back) to speak in front of 100s of people and plug your product/company, you change your speech (and backstory) until it fits the mantra-du-jour. 3 years ago, the speech would be "Fail Fast". A year ago, it would be "Learn to Pivot". Today, it's "Change the World!" As others have mentioned here, Evernote is not really an earth-shattering, universe-changing product. That's perfectly OK in my book, but own up to that fact. It's tiresome to hear people rewrite history and their own motivations just to sell themselves.

mcbaby 14y ago

Evernote is obviously a very successful company, and I'm sure Phil Libin is a smart guy, but he comes off as a total snob saying this... > "I think you know what it is: it’s to change the world" Most people who start a company start it to MAKE MONEY. Of course, he presents us with a false dilemma: you can either aspire to change the world, or have the desire to make money, earn power, etc. These are not mutually exclusive options. It's noble and all to want to change the world, but most people probably are out there trying to make a living... > "If you’re smart enough, if you’re talented enough, if you have the drive, if you have the ability, and you’re motivated by making money, then you should just get a real job instead, like become a banker or an investor or a consultant or something." I'd be fine with this if he finished the sentence with "become something you're passionate about." If you have all the qualities he mentions in the first part of the sentence, than pursue something you're genuinely interested in. As a side note, I'd be interested to see a list of some entrepreneurs who started companies with the sole intention of changing the world...

reason 14y ago

People in this space live in a thickly-lined bubble if they think something like Evernote is changing the world. Wisdom is not suddenly bestowed upon you because your note-taking service was recently valued at $1+ billion. I have always had a really hard time heeding to the advice of rich people who tell you what all the right and wrong reasons to become an entrepreneur are, especially when they start preaching about how it's not about the money, but about the journey. Also, "don't do it"? I'm sure companies that are having 100x more of an impact in this world than Evernote will ever have were started by people who very bluntly went against that sort of advice. Steve Jobs' "Stay hungry, stay foolish" comes to mind, and I'll side with his blissfully ignorant optimism any day.

dublinclontarf 14y ago
I don't know...Evenote is actually the ONLY service online I have ever paid for.
dublinclontarf 14y ago
I don't know...Evernote is actually the ONLY service online I have ever paid for.
- carguy1983 14y ago
  I'm 100% sure you're wrong.
philaquilina 14y ago
I think you are thinking of "change the world" in the "topple bad governments, empower the meek, help make this world a utopia" type of way. Evernote is changing the world. If you make 30 million people's lives just a tad bit easier, then yes, you've changed the world. If you've caused other companies to take note and copy your business strategy/idea and THEY make people's lives easier, then yes you've changed the world. Yes, he's rich, but I think he's saying that was a side effect of purer motivations. If you're in it to be rich, then you're in it for the wrong reasons. If you're in it create an amazing product and be impactful on a stranger's life, then you're in it for the right reasons. Just my take. Could be wrong.

muhfuhkuh 14y ago

Or, if you really want to change the world, alleviate the spectre of massive world hunger by coming up with radical agricultural techniques and selective breeding for drought resistance, then teach that technique to everyone you know for free[1]. Or, come up with a novel vaccine for one of our most vexing diseases of our time, then give away the formulation for free[2]. That's how you change the world. Cue the capitalism-as-religion downvote squad, but this guy is a world class putz if he thinks a cloud-based notepad is changing anything but 1st world slight inconvenience. [1]Norman Borlaug [2]Jonas Salk

vibrunazo 14y ago
If instead of "do it to change the world", he had said "do it to build something cool". Then would you have agreed? I personally still wouldn't. But it seems there are a lot of people cherry-picking with this "world" hyperbole and ignoring his actual point.
astine 14y ago
While those men did great things, who actually implemented their discoveries? Drug and biotech companies. Businesses have their place too.
eli_gottlieb 14y ago
Quite fully agreed. Capitalism repeats itself first as tragedy, then as Silicon Valley farce.

rexreed 14y ago

Who doesn't start a business thinking they're going to make money? Wouldn't it otherwise be called charity or a hobby? Sure, maybe not hogwild money, but I think getting paid for something for delivering something of value might be a definition of business?

jakejake 14y ago

I don't think this advice applies to every type of business. Particularly service-oriented startups that are able to land paying clients right from the beginning. I will agree though that working at a company that isn't financially stable is not a good place for someone who needs financial stability. Imagine your boss telling you that your next paycheck will only be half - or they can't pay it at all, but you'll get paid back later. Imagine that happening occasionally throughout the year. Add to that a constant, looming feeling that your company could go out of business any day even though you love working there. If those kinds of things upset or stress you out then a startup probably isn't a good place to work.

kreutz 14y ago

What else are we suppose to do?

inafield 14y ago
We're supposed to be his employees instead of challenging him in a crowded market. This way he makes more money from ideas we might have put forward and each one of us is one less competitor for him. Really though, if an entrepreneur is going to be dissuaded by this speech, they probably shouldn't be trying in the first place.

aguynamedrich 14y ago

Reasons not to listen to this guy: 1. Not all CEO's work 20 hour days, and he probably doesn't either 2. Starting your own company can give you the ability to challenge the outdated 9-to-5 sit-at-your-desk status quo more than working for someone else can 3. His skewed view of upcoming entrepreneurs as only the subset that bother him for advice doesn't reflect on you or your ability to successfully launch your own business 4. Seriously, Evernote? It's cloud data with a bow around it. 5. Working long hours doesn't mean slaving away at the office for long hours, it means that you're always "on". If you start a business around something you're passionate about, you'll be thinking about it all day anyway. 6. Ryan Carson just told us last week that he works 32 hours a week, and his company impacts the world a whole lot more than Evernote IMO (subjective, yes, but Treehouse and Carsonified educate and connect people in a way they couldn't have done otherwise, whereas you can eliminate the need for Evernote by creating a folder or two on Dropbox). 7. If you fail, you can always try again and/or re-join the work force. 8. Most people would feel a lot better about trying and failing than not trying at all. And the number one reason I'd say this video should be completely ignored is that you might actually succeed. This video tells me very little about entrepreneurship. The real message is that Evernote is run by a pretty unlikeable guy who would advise you, without getting to know you, to be a working stiff your entire life instead of taking chances. Advice that he obviously would not have taken himself.

stevewilhelm 14y ago

"Seven out of 10 new employer firms survive at least 2 years, half at least 5 years, a third at least 10 years, and a quarter stay in business 15 years or more." - According to the US SBA http://s831.us/IXGBFK http://s831.us/IXGBFK

sundeep_b 14y ago

It felt like I was a fresher listening to a senior at college doing the raw talk about the truths at college. You might not like them at first, but you will realize utterly that they are the truths and might even find yourself saying the same to another fellow, a different day. I couldn't agree with everything though - Evernote is second brain of the universe? Is it not under rating the human brain? Human brain is capable of many amazing things. If I am going to hear some one call something a second brain, it should be able to take decisions. Evernote is only a digital notebook that is accessible from many platforms keeping all the users away from a lot of dirty work(copying, syncing, etc.). That's it. I don't think that could ever CHANGE THE WORLD. That will only MAKE MY LIFE EASIER. I could even argue that entrepreneurship is more about MAKING MY LIFE EASIER than about CHANGING THE WORLD. When I get five minutes of waiting time, I don't open evernote to write something or read something. I open my twitter account and follow up with the links on hackernewsbot and few other tweets from people I like. That makes me feel productive. If I don't feel like reading technical things, I open my facebook and check what my friends are upto and I still feel productive.

tlogan 14y ago

Starting a company should be about making money. There are also other reasons but I think they should be considered as secondary.

jganetsk 14y ago

I hear this exact message a million times on Hacker News: a speech from an entrepreneur discouraging others to be like him/her... unless they are really serious about it. This is played to the point of cliche. For once, I'd love to see an article entitled "don't do it" and really actually mean it.

javajosh 14y ago

I love Evernote. It has changed my life. Before, I didn't have anywhere to put all the ideas, insights, jokes, and stories I had in my head. Now, with one key from anywhere I can get it out of my head and the feeling is incredible. But, fuck the CEO of Evernote. How dare he tell people not to start a company? Not only is it idiotic (I mean, first and foremost, he did it so he's a hypocrit; but secondly, someone started every company that exists. So if people actually followed his advice we'd be stuck with the current crop of companies...forever) but it's downright evil. To discourage people from starting companies is to discourage people from building, from creating, from giving form to their dreams. And that's inexcusable. tl;dr Evernote is great; the CEO is a fuckwit. EDIT: I got my first downvote, but I don't care. Discouraging people from creating is evil, and when confronting evil there's no place for 'nice'.

dizidoro 14y ago

If you are trying to change the world for no specific reason, you are probably megalomaniac. You have a much better chance to change the world if you are doing something you love rather than actually trying to change the world, plus you got the "bonus" of being happy. I believe you can do something only for money, just don't waste all your life on it.

famousactress 14y ago

IMHO the article misses the best part of the talk (in the middle somewhere). Ironically, given the "don't do it" bit.. Libin makes the point that now's a better time than ever to be an entrepreneur, and among the usual OSS/StuffsCheapNow points, he concludes that today the best product is more likely to 'win' than it has been in the past... Especially in the consumer space. Further pointing out that this essentially creates a meritocracy for people who are good at making things (even if they suck at sales/marketing). The talk is definitely better than the flamebait title.

drinkwhat 14y ago

I think he is just scared of others that might come up something thats better than Evernote.

tgrass 14y ago

I don't know anyone who makes more than $500K a year. Everyone I know who makes more than $60K a year running their own business, says their only regret is not starting earlier.

niels_olson 14y ago

> Power ... join the military Actually, I'm a mid grade officer in the Navy; I was recently told I was "part of the seniority plan" in my unit. I knew where Libin was going with that as soon as I read the subtitle. I answer to everyone!

mvkel 14y ago

I'm not sure what the point of this talk is. Are people supposed to walk away, saying "wow, that was inspiring!" If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all. Entrepreneurship is very much an individual sport in that there are no hard and fast rules. Take all advice with a grain of pepper.

deleted 14y ago

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gexla 14y ago

Reason to do it: Because you have to. When all else fails, your only option my be to hustle up your own work. For the thousands of people in the U.S. who have been unemployed for over a year, do it! I'm another example, I live in the Philippines but I can't work here because I'm a U.S. citizen, so my only option is running my own business.

jzycrzy 14y ago

Who's the audience? Sounds to me like he's looking for employees who will take a piece of changing the world (equity?) over cold hard cash. Based on all the talkers I hear, and the positive feedback they constantly get about how "cool" it is that they want to be an entrepreneur.. I think a good hard "don't do it" would be helpful fire under their butts to JFDI.

mathinker 14y ago

please take this note: CUT THE CRAP