6 ms·

What kinds of noise do the trains produce? Do you think there are any ways to lessen it, and/or have any been implemented? (I'm thinking something like sound ba

What kinds of noise do the trains produce? Do you think there are any ways to lessen it, and/or have any been implemented? (I'm thinking something like sound barriers).

ChainOfFools 3y ago
Not a rail expert, not even a casual spectator. But my unstudied impression is that the noise that penetrates the most is the ultra-low frequency rumble that comes from the diesel side of the drivetrain, with a secondary source being steel on steel squealing of bogeys around bends at the minimal range of their tolerance. But the latter doesn't have the penetrating power of the former, not by a long shot, so to eliminate that I'm not sure if barrier would really have much of an effect. A lot of these in-town runs actually do have some sort of barrier already. Instead powertrain would have to somehow switch entirely to battery while moving through sound propagating areas, and I'm assuming (maybe generously) that this is not already being done for some thorny technical reason and not just due to systemic inertia and complacency.
- nox101 3y ago
  Japan puts tall fences around highways. I've assumed that's for the noise but never checked. Example: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F02%2FO-uchi_Highway-Wall-_002.jpg&tbnid=JgTz9BFT4JUlNM&vet=12ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2F2023%2F02%2F1056708%2F&docid=OEkURSrdu6S8dM&w=1500&h=1000&q=%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AE%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF%E3%81%AE%E5%A3%81&ved=2ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webca...
  - geraldwhen 3y ago
    Many states have those. If not barriers, then large trees.
- twelvechairs 3y ago
  Or just use electrified trains in the first place, like most of the modern world
  - lmpdev 3y ago
    Electric doesn't eliminate cornering and braking noises unfortunately, which I find as more pronounced open problems
    - katbyte 3y ago
      That noise is far easier to mitigate with sound barriers
- adrianN 3y ago
  If you want especially quiet operations you can put rubber wheels on trains too.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  I'm probably missing something, but why would an electric train need a battery? What would the battery be used for?
  - ChainOfFools 3y ago
    The trains that make the most noise are diesel-electric, not electric; electric cross country freight trains aren't really a thing here. I don't DE engines have a battery in the conventional sense, although arguably their fuel tender full of diesel is a sort of battery. But in order for a train to be fully electric you would need to have a fully electrified infrastructure for freight rail, which we do not have and would be far-fetched as a solution compared to equipping such trains with a local battery tender when they come into town, in order to move them through the town (somewhat) quietly. after which they can switch back to diesel-electric power for the long cross country runs.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Electric freight trains make about as much noise as diesel electrics, since the vast majority of the noise either makes is the wheels hitting the rails and going screech. I had a hotel room in Switzerland next to a rail yard and learned this the hard way.
    - lelanthran 3y ago
      > But in order for a train to be fully electric you would need to have a fully electrified infrastructure for freight rail, which we do not have and would be far-fetched as a solution compared to equipping such trains with a local battery tender when they come into town, in order to move them through the town (somewhat) quietly. after which they can switch back to diesel-electric power for the long cross country runs. Okay, I understand now. An alternative proposition to installing batteries in DE engines is modifying them to be able to switch between electric lines (infrastructure) and the diesel engine. This means that towns can lay down the infrastructure, so that the diesel is switched off when the engine is going through a town, and then switches on again when the infrastructure is no longer there. The added benefit to this would be then that rolling out infrastructure gradually is not a problem: keep adding infrastructure over long distances and after a few decades the diesel engine won't be needed anymore.
cityofdelusion 3y ago
I’ve lived near tracks a couple times and the loudest by far is the horn from at-grade crossings. If you are a heavy sleeper and a few blocks away it might not matter, but if you are nearby it is incredibly loud.
- CoffeeOnWrite 3y ago
  For what it’s worth, I lived 50 yards from an at-grade freight track in the city, where from 10pm-7am the trains did not blow their horns, relying on the crossing protective lights and gates only, and that worked for me. Charming train horns during the day (yes they occasionally interrupted me when speaking during video meetings, but it was quaint and no big deal), peace and quiet at night. Great neighborhood, quite desirable, and I would be happy to live there again in the future. Not sure the safety track record, but if it’s favorable, perhaps this kind of program could be expanded. https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-offices/transportation/transit/union-pacific-warm-springs-corridor-quiet-zone https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-office...
mikrotikker 3y ago
I live about 150m from a line that goes over a bridge. Twice a day 4pm and 4am. It is not often the night train wakes me, often I wait to hear the click clacks before thinking it might be an earthquake. The day train usually slows since coming the other way it is approaching a pedestrian crossing. I kinda love it because when it speeds up again you can hear it's giant turbo spooling... Sounds so good. The rumbling also sounds kinda cool, sometimes it'll shake the house, I thought about setting up an accelerometer on and Arduino to swee what output I'd see. Often however I think I hear the train but it's just the sea. Or I can hardly hear the train for the noise of the sea.

What kinds of noise do the trains produce? Do you think there are any ways to lessen it, and/or have any been implemented? (I'm thinking something like sound barriers).

ChainOfFools 3y ago

Not a rail expert, not even a casual spectator. But my unstudied impression is that the noise that penetrates the most is the ultra-low frequency rumble that comes from the diesel side of the drivetrain, with a secondary source being steel on steel squealing of bogeys around bends at the minimal range of their tolerance. But the latter doesn't have the penetrating power of the former, not by a long shot, so to eliminate that I'm not sure if barrier would really have much of an effect. A lot of these in-town runs actually do have some sort of barrier already. Instead powertrain would have to somehow switch entirely to battery while moving through sound propagating areas, and I'm assuming (maybe generously) that this is not already being done for some thorny technical reason and not just due to systemic inertia and complacency.

nox101 3y ago
Japan puts tall fences around highways. I've assumed that's for the noise but never checked. Example: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F02%2FO-uchi_Highway-Wall-_002.jpg&tbnid=JgTz9BFT4JUlNM&vet=12ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2F2023%2F02%2F1056708%2F&docid=OEkURSrdu6S8dM&w=1500&h=1000&q=%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AE%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF%E3%81%AE%E5%A3%81&ved=2ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webca...
- geraldwhen 3y ago
  Many states have those. If not barriers, then large trees.
twelvechairs 3y ago
Or just use electrified trains in the first place, like most of the modern world
- lmpdev 3y ago
  Electric doesn't eliminate cornering and braking noises unfortunately, which I find as more pronounced open problems
  - katbyte 3y ago
    That noise is far easier to mitigate with sound barriers
adrianN 3y ago
If you want especially quiet operations you can put rubber wheels on trains too.
lelanthran 3y ago
I'm probably missing something, but why would an electric train need a battery? What would the battery be used for?
- ChainOfFools 3y ago
  The trains that make the most noise are diesel-electric, not electric; electric cross country freight trains aren't really a thing here. I don't DE engines have a battery in the conventional sense, although arguably their fuel tender full of diesel is a sort of battery. But in order for a train to be fully electric you would need to have a fully electrified infrastructure for freight rail, which we do not have and would be far-fetched as a solution compared to equipping such trains with a local battery tender when they come into town, in order to move them through the town (somewhat) quietly. after which they can switch back to diesel-electric power for the long cross country runs.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Electric freight trains make about as much noise as diesel electrics, since the vast majority of the noise either makes is the wheels hitting the rails and going screech. I had a hotel room in Switzerland next to a rail yard and learned this the hard way.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > But in order for a train to be fully electric you would need to have a fully electrified infrastructure for freight rail, which we do not have and would be far-fetched as a solution compared to equipping such trains with a local battery tender when they come into town, in order to move them through the town (somewhat) quietly. after which they can switch back to diesel-electric power for the long cross country runs. Okay, I understand now. An alternative proposition to installing batteries in DE engines is modifying them to be able to switch between electric lines (infrastructure) and the diesel engine. This means that towns can lay down the infrastructure, so that the diesel is switched off when the engine is going through a town, and then switches on again when the infrastructure is no longer there. The added benefit to this would be then that rolling out infrastructure gradually is not a problem: keep adding infrastructure over long distances and after a few decades the diesel engine won't be needed anymore.

cityofdelusion 3y ago

I’ve lived near tracks a couple times and the loudest by far is the horn from at-grade crossings. If you are a heavy sleeper and a few blocks away it might not matter, but if you are nearby it is incredibly loud.

CoffeeOnWrite 3y ago
For what it’s worth, I lived 50 yards from an at-grade freight track in the city, where from 10pm-7am the trains did not blow their horns, relying on the crossing protective lights and gates only, and that worked for me. Charming train horns during the day (yes they occasionally interrupted me when speaking during video meetings, but it was quaint and no big deal), peace and quiet at night. Great neighborhood, quite desirable, and I would be happy to live there again in the future. Not sure the safety track record, but if it’s favorable, perhaps this kind of program could be expanded. https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-offices/transportation/transit/union-pacific-warm-springs-corridor-quiet-zone https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-office...

mikrotikker 3y ago

I live about 150m from a line that goes over a bridge. Twice a day 4pm and 4am. It is not often the night train wakes me, often I wait to hear the click clacks before thinking it might be an earthquake. The day train usually slows since coming the other way it is approaching a pedestrian crossing. I kinda love it because when it speeds up again you can hear it's giant turbo spooling... Sounds so good. The rumbling also sounds kinda cool, sometimes it'll shake the house, I thought about setting up an accelerometer on and Arduino to swee what output I'd see. Often however I think I hear the train but it's just the sea. Or I can hardly hear the train for the noise of the sea.