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Typical PT populist reaction. It's not very hard to debunk, but this sentiment is very strong in some crowds in Lisboa & Porto. The foreigners, the nomads, usua

Typical PT populist reaction. It's not very hard to debunk, but this sentiment is very strong in some crowds in Lisboa & Porto. The foreigners, the nomads, usually well off people and golden visa people are what keeps the doors open on a lot of places that would simply disappear. I lived in some area where the people complained about the noise and misery, so the city council/mayor had places close earlier, gave out less permits etc; 3 years later the locals complained that so many nice smalls bars & restaurants & coffee shops disappeared and that there are only a few chains left. THEY weren't spending their days in these places; THEY weren't spending $100-200/day on food & drink; the nomads / tourists / expats were, so these places all closed. There is a lot wrong with this place (and every place I have lived by the way; nothing is perfect obviously), but getting rich folks in is not it. In my bar the American immigrants, who are currently the affluent gentrifiers here, spend vast amounts every day on food & drink, 365 days of the year, vs locals who have 1 coffee, if that, per week. I guess you know what's wrong when you lose it.

piloto_ciego 3y ago
Man, I need to talk to you! Lol My wife and I have been thinking about trying to leave America for the last few years but it’s objectively difficult to find a place that’s conducive to moving. How do most people you interact with do it? Also, why are you on HackerNews of all places?
- kraftverk_ 3y ago
  Philippines is a place to consider if you are an American also. Very good for expats or digital nomads. Speaking from experience
  - robocat 3y ago
    Are you taking about the Philippines being good to move to specifically for a couple? I'm not sure I would recommend it to single guys unless sex tourism is your thing. Although I suspect it is somewhat dependent on location. I went on a working holiday there (tourist visa - programming for my NZ company) as an ignorant guy for a month. It was hard to evade the sex workers approaching you. And I made an innocent mistake and booked a Best Western hotel when I arrived and the hotel happened to be in a dodgy sexwork area. Fascinating given I'm a bit naive, but I wouldn't recommend it except for the midget boxers. Later I met an Australian guy at a bar and he couldn't stop raving about how good a time he had at one of the towns near the American base. I really enjoyed the Philippines and the people, but the sex tourism wasn't appealing to me.
- jIyajbe 3y ago
  Different poster here. My wife and I retired to Portugal (near Lisbon) about two years ago. I guess we're two of the "affluent gentrifiers". :-) In contrast, we met a 20-something U.S. couple in our language class, who moved here and are working. We all came here on the D7 visa program, not the Golden Visa. I'd be happy to give you some insights, but I'm not sure what you mean by "conducive to moving"; what sort of issues or difficulties are you having?
  - piloto_ciego 3y ago
    Well, I’m starting to finals h a medical treatment tomorrow and I’m worried that that may disqualify me… some countries do, others do not. But yah, I think Portugal would be cool, I spent a bit of time in Galicia this summer and in 2018 and loved it, slightly south of there would be nice.
- more_corn 3y ago
  I have a few friends who moved to Lisbon. I visited and quite liked it. There was some pushback from the locals about gentrification, but as previously said, it’s hard to argue that wealthy, educated people coming to town and spending money is an entirely bad thing.
  - bwb 3y ago
    Change is constant, and there are always groups of people that dislike it. Especially when it directly affects them. It is hard sometimes to see that x is happening but also the good of y in other areas. I live in Portugal and love it; been here 3 years in a small town up North. Everyone has been lovely and we made friends from day 1. The Portuguese people are incredibly kind and warm.
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  Don't do it. America has it's problems, but everywhere does and you'll find practically all places are worse to actually live.
  - fakenewsthrowww 3y ago
    Everywhere does have issues, but this is a very typically american point of view I don't miss. It's best characterized by "the grass is always greener on the other side" to explain somehow it is just your envy and imagination. I don't regret leaving the USA and never have, it is a better fit for me in Europe, my stress level is way down, and I'm happier than I have been in years. Problems are not the same everywhere and they are not at the same intensity. Hell, I have lived enough places in the USA to know that not everywhere in the USA has the same degree of issues. Just try it, you're not obligated to stay somewhere forever and honestly the adventure for some people is in of itself worthwhile.
    - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
      This is a very typically ignorant point of view. It's best characterized by "Everyone who thinks america is the best place to live is some fat white loud dude living in Texas, who's never left". I'm not american. I spent just over half my life outside the US. There are 10's of millions of us.
      - henry2023 3y ago
        1. Parent comment didn’t said that. 2. Most people who believe that the US is the best place to live in the world, have never lived anywhere else. 3. There is bast evidence that the US is not the best place to live if you care about living a happy life. (I.e. clinically reported depression rate)
        danielmarkbruce 3y ago
        The implication is clear: "if you think the US is the best place to live, you are ignorant". Even your point 2 restates it. It's not based on any factual information. The united states has the most people on planet earth who have lived somewhere else but chose here, despite the enormous cost and effort involved to get here. It's fine for someone to have the opinion that it's not a great place. But the idea that anyone who thinks the us is the best place to live thinks that based on ignorance is stupid.
i8comments 3y ago
Different priorities. I value more peace and quiet than money in the economy. We dont need that kind of trouble. It's what makes Portugal a good place to live if you have money. It is like a poor Sweden. Not a poor NYC.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  If you want peace & quiet, then don't live in a city. A country needs money, it is what it is. It is not unique to Portugal in any way; people move to cities in droves; Amsterdam, Berlin, Melbourne (I lived in all 3) and then start complaining that they don't want noise but peace & quiet. Why, in the good lords name would you live in a city in that case? And in Germany and Portugal (ah and Sweden by the way) you can live nice and cheap in nature and have all the rest you want, why do you need to make it worse for people who don't enjoy that and live in a city for the excitement?

piloto_ciego 3y ago

Man, I need to talk to you! Lol My wife and I have been thinking about trying to leave America for the last few years but it’s objectively difficult to find a place that’s conducive to moving. How do most people you interact with do it? Also, why are you on HackerNews of all places?

kraftverk_ 3y ago
Philippines is a place to consider if you are an American also. Very good for expats or digital nomads. Speaking from experience
- robocat 3y ago
  Are you taking about the Philippines being good to move to specifically for a couple? I'm not sure I would recommend it to single guys unless sex tourism is your thing. Although I suspect it is somewhat dependent on location. I went on a working holiday there (tourist visa - programming for my NZ company) as an ignorant guy for a month. It was hard to evade the sex workers approaching you. And I made an innocent mistake and booked a Best Western hotel when I arrived and the hotel happened to be in a dodgy sexwork area. Fascinating given I'm a bit naive, but I wouldn't recommend it except for the midget boxers. Later I met an Australian guy at a bar and he couldn't stop raving about how good a time he had at one of the towns near the American base. I really enjoyed the Philippines and the people, but the sex tourism wasn't appealing to me.
jIyajbe 3y ago
Different poster here. My wife and I retired to Portugal (near Lisbon) about two years ago. I guess we're two of the "affluent gentrifiers". :-) In contrast, we met a 20-something U.S. couple in our language class, who moved here and are working. We all came here on the D7 visa program, not the Golden Visa. I'd be happy to give you some insights, but I'm not sure what you mean by "conducive to moving"; what sort of issues or difficulties are you having?
- piloto_ciego 3y ago
  Well, I’m starting to finals h a medical treatment tomorrow and I’m worried that that may disqualify me… some countries do, others do not. But yah, I think Portugal would be cool, I spent a bit of time in Galicia this summer and in 2018 and loved it, slightly south of there would be nice.
more_corn 3y ago
I have a few friends who moved to Lisbon. I visited and quite liked it. There was some pushback from the locals about gentrification, but as previously said, it’s hard to argue that wealthy, educated people coming to town and spending money is an entirely bad thing.
- bwb 3y ago
  Change is constant, and there are always groups of people that dislike it. Especially when it directly affects them. It is hard sometimes to see that x is happening but also the good of y in other areas. I live in Portugal and love it; been here 3 years in a small town up North. Everyone has been lovely and we made friends from day 1. The Portuguese people are incredibly kind and warm.
danielmarkbruce 3y ago
Don't do it. America has it's problems, but everywhere does and you'll find practically all places are worse to actually live.
- fakenewsthrowww 3y ago
  Everywhere does have issues, but this is a very typically american point of view I don't miss. It's best characterized by "the grass is always greener on the other side" to explain somehow it is just your envy and imagination. I don't regret leaving the USA and never have, it is a better fit for me in Europe, my stress level is way down, and I'm happier than I have been in years. Problems are not the same everywhere and they are not at the same intensity. Hell, I have lived enough places in the USA to know that not everywhere in the USA has the same degree of issues. Just try it, you're not obligated to stay somewhere forever and honestly the adventure for some people is in of itself worthwhile.
  - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
    This is a very typically ignorant point of view. It's best characterized by "Everyone who thinks america is the best place to live is some fat white loud dude living in Texas, who's never left". I'm not american. I spent just over half my life outside the US. There are 10's of millions of us.
    - henry2023 3y ago
      1. Parent comment didn’t said that. 2. Most people who believe that the US is the best place to live in the world, have never lived anywhere else. 3. There is bast evidence that the US is not the best place to live if you care about living a happy life. (I.e. clinically reported depression rate)
      - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
        The implication is clear: "if you think the US is the best place to live, you are ignorant". Even your point 2 restates it. It's not based on any factual information. The united states has the most people on planet earth who have lived somewhere else but chose here, despite the enormous cost and effort involved to get here. It's fine for someone to have the opinion that it's not a great place. But the idea that anyone who thinks the us is the best place to live thinks that based on ignorance is stupid.

i8comments 3y ago

Different priorities. I value more peace and quiet than money in the economy. We dont need that kind of trouble. It's what makes Portugal a good place to live if you have money. It is like a poor Sweden. Not a poor NYC.

anonzzzies 3y ago
If you want peace & quiet, then don't live in a city. A country needs money, it is what it is. It is not unique to Portugal in any way; people move to cities in droves; Amsterdam, Berlin, Melbourne (I lived in all 3) and then start complaining that they don't want noise but peace & quiet. Why, in the good lords name would you live in a city in that case? And in Germany and Portugal (ah and Sweden by the way) you can live nice and cheap in nature and have all the rest you want, why do you need to make it worse for people who don't enjoy that and live in a city for the excitement?