7 ms·

> I don't know if this has been announced before... When they announced the original deal with T-Mobile, they said that T-Mobile would handle the (spectrum) li

> I don't know if this has been announced before... When they announced the original deal with T-Mobile, they said that T-Mobile would handle the (spectrum) license for the US and they're looking for a partner in other countries with the appropriate spectrum licensing. US T-Mobile customers would have access to this SpaceX service in any country where there is a partner with the spectrum license. https://www.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier/t-mobile-takes-coverage-above-and-beyond-with-spacex https://www.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier/t-mobile-takes-cove... If you have an iPhone 14 or above, Apple offers similar capabilities to all iPhone users in about a dozen countries (so far) regardless of which mobile network you subscribe to at home. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213426 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213426

modeless 3y ago
I disagree that Apple's capability is similar. The feature only allows texting emergency services, requires holding the phone in a specific orientation to send or receive, is separate from your carrier service (only two years are free with purchase), and is exceedingly slow. SpaceX's service will allow texting and receiving texts from anyone using your carrier number, plans to support third party messaging apps such as WhatsApp, is much faster, and does not require holding the phone in any particular orientation to receive messages. It can supposedly work from a pocket or inside a car.
- forgot-im-old 3y ago
  >> It can supposedly work from a pocket or inside a car. False
- lxgr 3y ago
  Elon has mentioned a speed of about 7 Mbit/s for an entire cell (which in these systems usually means a circle with a radius of a few hundred kilometers). That's within an order of magnitude of current LEO systems. The innovation here is that it'll supposedly work with unmodified off-the-shelf phones. (Personally I'm assuming that at least messaging software will have to be modified in order to use the available bandwidth efficiently.)
  - modeless 3y ago
    Apple hasn't disclosed the bitrate of their Emergency SOS feature but from FCC filings I believe it uses Globalstar's L-Band at 1610 Mhz for uplink, and I believe the bitrate Globalstar supports in that channel is 9.6 kbps. So almost three orders of magnitude less than the SpaceX system, not one. In addition I believe that the typical achieved bitrate is even less than that in Apple's case due to the lack of a large dedicated antenna. In demos it typically takes many seconds up to several minutes to send a single message, during which time you are directed to continuously point the phone at the satellite for best reception.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - lxgr 3y ago
      The 7 Mbit/s are for an entire cell, i.e. all devices simultaneously transmitting in it, not per device. Iridium (a comparable system) used to support about 10 Mbit/s per satellite in its first satellite generation, which had 48 spot beams each. The second generation supports about a megabit per modem, but these have larger antennas than a regular satphone. > Apple doesn't disclose the bitrate of their Emergency SOS feature but it uses Globalstar's L-Band for uplink and I believe the bitrate of that channel is 9.6 kbps. I'm almost certain Apple doesn't even use the full 9.6 kbit/s modulation scheme for their emergency SOS feature: As you mention, it's way too slow for that (having used it myself – even just transmitting my location takes a couple of seconds, and that's a message of only a few bytes). Globalstar satellites are bent-pipe relays, so Apple could be using whatever custom modulation and coding scheme they need to stay within the constraints of their power and SNR envelope. With the iPhone's built-in antenna and transmit power (around 2 watts or so, if I remember correctly), I'd be surprised if it was more than a couple hundred bits per second. Regular (i.e. non-smartphone) satellite messengers are much faster than that and only take a few seconds to transmit and receive messages of hundreds of bytes.
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        I hope one day Apple can jam some more features in the downstream. Would be cool to broadcast news or weather updates just by pointing your phone at the sky for a few moments. Satellite should be able to blast the signal. Downsides: no real "cell" infra for Globalstar, and it doesn't work far outside of landmasses.
- Reason077 3y ago
  … and the SpaceX service works with any ordinary modern phone. Not just the latest iPhone with special hardware.
  - yreg 3y ago
    Well it requires a 5G phone. And Apple's service is not just the latest iPhones.
    - Reason077 3y ago
      Not 5G. The Starlink service uses 4G LTE. Will work with pretty much any phone made in the past decade or so.
  - pests 3y ago
    It's not special hardware. They are just utilizing the underlying capabilities of their the Qualcomm broadband chip. Anyone else using the same chip can add satellite functionality too.
    - Reason077 3y ago
      It is definitely special hardware. Besides the Qualcomm chip, there’s a dedicated satellite antenna built in to supported iPhones. To add satellite functionality, other brands would also need to add satellite antennas to their phones. SpaceX service, on the other hand, works with pre-existing 4G/LTE phones of any brand, with no special hardware requirements.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  There’s more nuance to the pricing situation that I think is worth mentioning. Whilst Apple said that they’d charge for this, they IIRC never announced pricing, and offered the first year free. That first year has since lapsed and they’ve committed to keeping it free for another year. Given the negative PR that would come of, say, a death that could’ve been prevented had someone subscribed to Uncle Tim’s Apple Emergency Plus Prime, I have every expectation that Apple will continue to swallow the cost. Not to say that anything you said was wrong, and not to say that it’s not still a precarious situation. Just offering additional detail to those that haven’t watched this as closely.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
    > the negative PR that would come of, say, a death that could’ve been prevented had someone subscribed It seems this could easily be avoided by selling 1 year subscriptions, available retroactively for a steep fee.
- shaklee3 3y ago
  And works on any phone and not just iPhone
- WWLink 3y ago
  -rolls eyes- damnit that gave me a headache. they almost fell out of my head.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
notatoad 3y ago
>If you have an iPhone 14 or above, Apple offers similar capabilities to all iPhone users in about a dozen countries (so far) regardless of which mobile network you subscribe to at home. Apple only lets you communicate with an emergency dispatch service. the T-Mobile/starlink service appears to allow sending and receiving texts to any number.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Slight downside, but in many places you can’t text 911 or local equivalent
  - lxgr 3y ago
    With Apple's service, you're not actually communicating with a regular 911 service, but rather a specialized service provider that relays your emergency call to local authorities (and more recently car roadside assistance services). Relaying texts to a phone call is very likely part of what they do.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      d'oh, the roadside assistance is US only, not even in Canada :(
  - notatoad 3y ago
    not so much a downside or an upside, just a totally different thing.
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      Could be if you are loosing consciousness and none of your friends respond to your dramatic texts. I really doubt they’ll release this without ability to call 911.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]

modeless 3y ago

I disagree that Apple's capability is similar. The feature only allows texting emergency services, requires holding the phone in a specific orientation to send or receive, is separate from your carrier service (only two years are free with purchase), and is exceedingly slow. SpaceX's service will allow texting and receiving texts from anyone using your carrier number, plans to support third party messaging apps such as WhatsApp, is much faster, and does not require holding the phone in any particular orientation to receive messages. It can supposedly work from a pocket or inside a car.

forgot-im-old 3y ago
>> It can supposedly work from a pocket or inside a car. False
lxgr 3y ago
Elon has mentioned a speed of about 7 Mbit/s for an entire cell (which in these systems usually means a circle with a radius of a few hundred kilometers). That's within an order of magnitude of current LEO systems. The innovation here is that it'll supposedly work with unmodified off-the-shelf phones. (Personally I'm assuming that at least messaging software will have to be modified in order to use the available bandwidth efficiently.)
- modeless 3y ago
  Apple hasn't disclosed the bitrate of their Emergency SOS feature but from FCC filings I believe it uses Globalstar's L-Band at 1610 Mhz for uplink, and I believe the bitrate Globalstar supports in that channel is 9.6 kbps. So almost three orders of magnitude less than the SpaceX system, not one. In addition I believe that the typical achieved bitrate is even less than that in Apple's case due to the lack of a large dedicated antenna. In demos it typically takes many seconds up to several minutes to send a single message, during which time you are directed to continuously point the phone at the satellite for best reception.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lxgr 3y ago
    The 7 Mbit/s are for an entire cell, i.e. all devices simultaneously transmitting in it, not per device. Iridium (a comparable system) used to support about 10 Mbit/s per satellite in its first satellite generation, which had 48 spot beams each. The second generation supports about a megabit per modem, but these have larger antennas than a regular satphone. > Apple doesn't disclose the bitrate of their Emergency SOS feature but it uses Globalstar's L-Band for uplink and I believe the bitrate of that channel is 9.6 kbps. I'm almost certain Apple doesn't even use the full 9.6 kbit/s modulation scheme for their emergency SOS feature: As you mention, it's way too slow for that (having used it myself – even just transmitting my location takes a couple of seconds, and that's a message of only a few bytes). Globalstar satellites are bent-pipe relays, so Apple could be using whatever custom modulation and coding scheme they need to stay within the constraints of their power and SNR envelope. With the iPhone's built-in antenna and transmit power (around 2 watts or so, if I remember correctly), I'd be surprised if it was more than a couple hundred bits per second. Regular (i.e. non-smartphone) satellite messengers are much faster than that and only take a few seconds to transmit and receive messages of hundreds of bytes.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      I hope one day Apple can jam some more features in the downstream. Would be cool to broadcast news or weather updates just by pointing your phone at the sky for a few moments. Satellite should be able to blast the signal. Downsides: no real "cell" infra for Globalstar, and it doesn't work far outside of landmasses.
Reason077 3y ago
… and the SpaceX service works with any ordinary modern phone. Not just the latest iPhone with special hardware.
- yreg 3y ago
  Well it requires a 5G phone. And Apple's service is not just the latest iPhones.
  - Reason077 3y ago
    Not 5G. The Starlink service uses 4G LTE. Will work with pretty much any phone made in the past decade or so.
- pests 3y ago
  It's not special hardware. They are just utilizing the underlying capabilities of their the Qualcomm broadband chip. Anyone else using the same chip can add satellite functionality too.
  - Reason077 3y ago
    It is definitely special hardware. Besides the Qualcomm chip, there’s a dedicated satellite antenna built in to supported iPhones. To add satellite functionality, other brands would also need to add satellite antennas to their phones. SpaceX service, on the other hand, works with pre-existing 4G/LTE phones of any brand, with no special hardware requirements.
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
There’s more nuance to the pricing situation that I think is worth mentioning. Whilst Apple said that they’d charge for this, they IIRC never announced pricing, and offered the first year free. That first year has since lapsed and they’ve committed to keeping it free for another year. Given the negative PR that would come of, say, a death that could’ve been prevented had someone subscribed to Uncle Tim’s Apple Emergency Plus Prime, I have every expectation that Apple will continue to swallow the cost. Not to say that anything you said was wrong, and not to say that it’s not still a precarious situation. Just offering additional detail to those that haven’t watched this as closely.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
  > the negative PR that would come of, say, a death that could’ve been prevented had someone subscribed It seems this could easily be avoided by selling 1 year subscriptions, available retroactively for a steep fee.
shaklee3 3y ago
And works on any phone and not just iPhone
WWLink 3y ago
-rolls eyes- damnit that gave me a headache. they almost fell out of my head.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

notatoad 3y ago

>If you have an iPhone 14 or above, Apple offers similar capabilities to all iPhone users in about a dozen countries (so far) regardless of which mobile network you subscribe to at home. Apple only lets you communicate with an emergency dispatch service. the T-Mobile/starlink service appears to allow sending and receiving texts to any number.

dzhiurgis 3y ago
Slight downside, but in many places you can’t text 911 or local equivalent
- lxgr 3y ago
  With Apple's service, you're not actually communicating with a regular 911 service, but rather a specialized service provider that relays your emergency call to local authorities (and more recently car roadside assistance services). Relaying texts to a phone call is very likely part of what they do.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    d'oh, the roadside assistance is US only, not even in Canada :(
- notatoad 3y ago
  not so much a downside or an upside, just a totally different thing.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    Could be if you are loosing consciousness and none of your friends respond to your dramatic texts. I really doubt they’ll release this without ability to call 911.

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]