11 ms·

> I started my career during the dot com boom, and there was so much optimism about the beneficial societal changes that tech and the Internet would bring. I d

by brabel 3y ago

> I started my career during the dot com boom, and there was so much optimism about the beneficial societal changes that tech and the Internet would bring. I don't feel like all tech is "evil" these days... Wow that's so true... we totally didn't see the social media dystopia we're living in today coming. We imagined a world where everyone has all the world knowledge available at their fingertips would be wonderful. How wrong were we.

amelius 3y ago
In the early 90s the internet was great. The problems started with companies and their inherent greed.
- castalian 3y ago
  No, it was the people. Early internet users demographics was a result of extreme selection. Companies did exist back then.
  - amelius 3y ago
    Companies existed of course, but they provided the building blocks of the internet and were not directly concerned with the processing of our data.
  - bakugo 3y ago
    This is true. The big turning point was the release of the iPhone, a device that allowed people who didn't know what a computer was to access the internet.
    - kian 3y ago
      I'd also call out Eternal September in 1993, when AOL made it easy for anyone with a computer to connect online. This permanently changed the composition of the internet, and paved the way for the social networks that would later come to dominance after the iPhone was released.
    - ponector 3y ago
      Why iphone? We had internet on mobile phones before that point. But I agree with idea that internet became dumber with more people in.
      - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
        > Why iphone? We had internet on mobile phones before that point. Certainly not in any way that mattered, and I say this as someone who spent the middle part of my career specifically on mobile. I mean, sure, there was stuff like WAP, and some other niche phones that could (very, very clunkily) display full HTML. But the launch of the iPhone is what first brought the mobile Internet to the masses (and pretty much all smartphones after the iPhone aped the basic design), and most importantly, was the beginning of the change where websites started even giving a shit about mobile clients ("Mobile first" design and all that).
      - mecha_ghidorah 3y ago
        I think mostly just the iPhone exploded it, and also made a lot of things much more low effort. Like take for example people constantly posting photos of themselves and food and what have you on social media - pre iPhone high quality photos required a separate camera and a computer in order to upload onto social media. Post iPhone you could do it all from one device.
  - gopher_space 3y ago
    Barriers to entry that revolve around level of interest are ok.
mandeepj 3y ago
> How wrong were we Nowhere! Social media brought out the true character of people; most (many?) of us are negative species, mix that along with bad people.
- doctorwho42 3y ago
  Ehh this type of thinking is reductive. The primary issues are a combination of nature vs nurture. The age of argument, the solution has always been some combination of both. But when you look at our western society over the past 60 years or so, you see that -fundamentally- the nurture part of the equation is being heavily influenced by capitalistic forces. For example, news used to be once a day, then 3 times a day, now 24/7/365. There isn't more news now than 100 years ago, so how do you feel all that time and how do you keep someone engaged? (If you have been paying attention, you know the answer is selling fear, sex, violence, and other negative emotions are traits of the human species.) But really, the easiest way to counter this toxic mindset was said best by mister Rodgers: just look for the helpers. Look for the guys running into the fray when everyone else runs away... Those people are just as human as you or me... They are the true character of the human species. For we are a communal species that depends on one another, we always have, we aren't a bad species... We are just letting our man made systems bring out the worst.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >Look for the guys running into the fray when everyone else runs away... Those people are just as human as you or me... They are the true character of the human species. If we have to look to find them, are they really the "true" character? I'm sure if we look hard enough we could find a polite polar bear, but is that a "true" polar bear?
    - vwcx 3y ago
      main characters =/= dominant characters =/= true characters
  - mecha_ghidorah 3y ago
hunter2_ 3y ago
On average, yes it's easy to get stuck in a rut with low quality content, toxic social media, attention-stealing recommendations, etc. but with just a reasonable amount of effort it can be avoided in favor of the good stuff. Just like a traveler can get stuck at tourist traps or with just a few more moments of planning find a local treasure; and how if you're at a buffet you could get locked into the mac & cheese or go find the hibachi station in the back. It would be nice if getting lost wasn't a thing, but it's not terribly onerous to navigate the scenic route.
- j4yav 3y ago
  But we are surrounded by people not doing that, and not even through any fault of their own for the most part. They are wired into an endless machine that trades dopamine hits for their money. Children are wired in before they even have a chance to resist.
  - mattgreenrocks 3y ago
    The Extremely Online crowd’s influence is waning. Twitter is widely mocked as a cesspool of conversation. Facebook is seen as antiquated. Instagram and TikTok are the current darlings but they seem to have less of an iron grip than the OG social networks. The future is probably not another winner-take-all network. We’ve tried enough of those. The future is probably smaller networks where users self-select into them based on affiliations, much like web forums.
    - t0bia_s 3y ago
      You mean Discord (interest, hobbies) and family chat channels on various platforms?
    - genevra 3y ago
      Weird, I've seen social media and "online communities" move into the publicly accepted sphere more and more. 10 years ago you'd be looked at funny by certain people if you said you had a social media or reddit account, and nowadays it's just sorta expected
smugglerFlynn 3y ago
I think what we have really underestimated is the amount of people who would get hooked on instant gratification more than this available knowledge (which, turns out, I am also guilty of). Then came for-profits that agressively monetised every single bad habit one might imagine online and got us where we are today. Knowledge is still at the fingertips, but so many of us are now short-attention-span information-holics and instant gratification addicts. We imagined brave new world, but became an equivalent of chain smokers trying to break out of their habit in a world where everyone else also smokes.

by brabel 3y ago

amelius 3y ago

In the early 90s the internet was great. The problems started with companies and their inherent greed.

castalian 3y ago
No, it was the people. Early internet users demographics was a result of extreme selection. Companies did exist back then.
- amelius 3y ago
  Companies existed of course, but they provided the building blocks of the internet and were not directly concerned with the processing of our data.
- bakugo 3y ago
  This is true. The big turning point was the release of the iPhone, a device that allowed people who didn't know what a computer was to access the internet.
  - kian 3y ago
    I'd also call out Eternal September in 1993, when AOL made it easy for anyone with a computer to connect online. This permanently changed the composition of the internet, and paved the way for the social networks that would later come to dominance after the iPhone was released.
  - ponector 3y ago
    Why iphone? We had internet on mobile phones before that point. But I agree with idea that internet became dumber with more people in.
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      > Why iphone? We had internet on mobile phones before that point. Certainly not in any way that mattered, and I say this as someone who spent the middle part of my career specifically on mobile. I mean, sure, there was stuff like WAP, and some other niche phones that could (very, very clunkily) display full HTML. But the launch of the iPhone is what first brought the mobile Internet to the masses (and pretty much all smartphones after the iPhone aped the basic design), and most importantly, was the beginning of the change where websites started even giving a shit about mobile clients ("Mobile first" design and all that).
    - mecha_ghidorah 3y ago
      I think mostly just the iPhone exploded it, and also made a lot of things much more low effort. Like take for example people constantly posting photos of themselves and food and what have you on social media - pre iPhone high quality photos required a separate camera and a computer in order to upload onto social media. Post iPhone you could do it all from one device.
- gopher_space 3y ago
  Barriers to entry that revolve around level of interest are ok.

mandeepj 3y ago

> How wrong were we Nowhere! Social media brought out the true character of people; most (many?) of us are negative species, mix that along with bad people.

doctorwho42 3y ago
Ehh this type of thinking is reductive. The primary issues are a combination of nature vs nurture. The age of argument, the solution has always been some combination of both. But when you look at our western society over the past 60 years or so, you see that -fundamentally- the nurture part of the equation is being heavily influenced by capitalistic forces. For example, news used to be once a day, then 3 times a day, now 24/7/365. There isn't more news now than 100 years ago, so how do you feel all that time and how do you keep someone engaged? (If you have been paying attention, you know the answer is selling fear, sex, violence, and other negative emotions are traits of the human species.) But really, the easiest way to counter this toxic mindset was said best by mister Rodgers: just look for the helpers. Look for the guys running into the fray when everyone else runs away... Those people are just as human as you or me... They are the true character of the human species. For we are a communal species that depends on one another, we always have, we aren't a bad species... We are just letting our man made systems bring out the worst.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >Look for the guys running into the fray when everyone else runs away... Those people are just as human as you or me... They are the true character of the human species. If we have to look to find them, are they really the "true" character? I'm sure if we look hard enough we could find a polite polar bear, but is that a "true" polar bear?
  - vwcx 3y ago
    main characters =/= dominant characters =/= true characters
- mecha_ghidorah 3y ago

hunter2_ 3y ago

On average, yes it's easy to get stuck in a rut with low quality content, toxic social media, attention-stealing recommendations, etc. but with just a reasonable amount of effort it can be avoided in favor of the good stuff. Just like a traveler can get stuck at tourist traps or with just a few more moments of planning find a local treasure; and how if you're at a buffet you could get locked into the mac & cheese or go find the hibachi station in the back. It would be nice if getting lost wasn't a thing, but it's not terribly onerous to navigate the scenic route.

j4yav 3y ago
But we are surrounded by people not doing that, and not even through any fault of their own for the most part. They are wired into an endless machine that trades dopamine hits for their money. Children are wired in before they even have a chance to resist.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  The Extremely Online crowd’s influence is waning. Twitter is widely mocked as a cesspool of conversation. Facebook is seen as antiquated. Instagram and TikTok are the current darlings but they seem to have less of an iron grip than the OG social networks. The future is probably not another winner-take-all network. We’ve tried enough of those. The future is probably smaller networks where users self-select into them based on affiliations, much like web forums.
  - t0bia_s 3y ago
    You mean Discord (interest, hobbies) and family chat channels on various platforms?
  - genevra 3y ago
    Weird, I've seen social media and "online communities" move into the publicly accepted sphere more and more. 10 years ago you'd be looked at funny by certain people if you said you had a social media or reddit account, and nowadays it's just sorta expected

smugglerFlynn 3y ago

I think what we have really underestimated is the amount of people who would get hooked on instant gratification more than this available knowledge (which, turns out, I am also guilty of). Then came for-profits that agressively monetised every single bad habit one might imagine online and got us where we are today. Knowledge is still at the fingertips, but so many of us are now short-attention-span information-holics and instant gratification addicts. We imagined brave new world, but became an equivalent of chain smokers trying to break out of their habit in a world where everyone else also smokes.