6 ms·

"Magic Balls" installed by drones may revolutionize US power grid

53 points by foruhar 3y ago

FrankWilhoit 3y ago
There is already a lot of telemetry on North American transmission lines and even more on transmission substation equipment, because the utilities understand that these are their highest-replacement-cost assets. But in our regulatory environment, squeezing out the last increment of dynamic capacity is more of an RTO concern than a utility concern. The RTOs may be doing cost-benefit analysis on things like this, but that analysis will be very complicated.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  "Regional Transmission Organization"?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hoerensagen 3y ago
    Yes.according to Wikipedia: A RTO in the US is a TSO that coordinates, controls, and monitors a multi-state electric grid. The voluntary creation of RTOs was initiated by FERC Order No. 2000, issued on December 20, 1999. RTOs typically perform the same functions as ISOs but cover a larger geographic area.
gnabgib 3y ago
This story references the electrek story (already posted [0]), although the Heimdall post from October[1] (also referenced) seems to have the best info. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38983886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38983886 [1]: https://heimdallpower.com/us/arva-customer-story-magic-ball/ https://heimdallpower.com/us/arva-customer-story-magic-ball/
NotYourLawyer 3y ago
Good lord, please don’t do this to hyperlinks.
ethagknight 3y ago
Magic Balls aka temperature sensors that allow transmission lines to be overloaded based on environmental conditions, meaning more capacity across existing lines when conditions are favorable.
- amelius 3y ago
  +1 Thank you.
- aaron695 3y ago
  It also has voltage, vibration, ground clearance, inclination so you are also measuring snow and wind and other scada shit. What's actually cool is I've never seen a drone install anything before. Closest thing is placing a bomb, which has an high amount of tolerance. They say it can be installed without shutting down power. Think of all the things it skips, outages and the paperwork, working from heights and the paperwork, clearance zones and the paperwork. It's probably a 20 man team down to 10.
- bozhark 3y ago
  Also noted "Heimdall said that advanced weather information, power-line data, and machine learning are part of the solution its experts bring to the grid."
nomel 3y ago
I can't find any information on how these are powered. Do they partly use current flow from coronal discharge? Or is it some long lasting battery?
- 127361 3y ago
  Likely from the magnetic field from the conductor. They even have street lights that are powered this way. https://livrepository.liverpool.ac.uk/3005516/1/TPEL2436702%20Sheng.pdf https://livrepository.liverpool.ac.uk/3005516/1/TPEL2436702%... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqbIhZO7SJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqbIhZO7SJc
- xnzakg 3y ago
  Not sure how much I am allowed to go into detail here, but can confirm what 127361 wrote: the sensors harvest power from the electromagnetic field in normal use. However, considering "power outage detection" is a selling point, you can draw your own conclusions about there being some power storage onboard ;)
  - bozhark 3y ago
    power harvest and large/super caps? neat
    - nomel 3y ago
      I think the first assumption should be a boring old battery. Probably some lead acid type, since discharge would be very very rare.
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    probably patented by now? disclosed yet?
- Paddywack 3y ago
  A few years ago I was thinking of how to use powerlines to recharge drones using the electromagnetic field. Imagine a drone hanging from a line like a bat, recharging in remote areas. I think MIT had a patent for that. This could be the perfect use case for that too..?
salty_biscuits 3y ago
Just for a bit of background, transmission companies want to know the temperature of transmission lines because the dynamic clearance of the line to the ground as the current heats the wire limits the max current. Surprisingly complex to model accurately as it is quite dynamic (sometimes the conductor is pinned with the insulator and it swings, or sometimes it can slip through, etc, etc).
abestic9 3y ago
I'm not a fan of the manufacturer dubbing these "Magic Balls", when "sensor spheres" or even "Neuron" from the original article linked in this thread, is more than sufficient. We're not trying to appeal to home consumers here. Maybe it's for politicians... Cool project though, transmission costs account for a large proportion of energy delivery.
- bozhark 3y ago
  it's probably for Americans
layer8 3y ago
Those hyperlinks are pretty ballsy.

53 points by foruhar 3y ago

There is already a lot of telemetry on North American transmission lines and even more on transmission substation equipment, because the utilities understand that these are their highest-replacement-cost assets. But in our regulatory environment, squeezing out the last increment of dynamic capacity is more of an RTO concern than a utility concern. The RTOs may be doing cost-benefit analysis on things like this, but that analysis will be very complicated.

andrewflnr 3y ago
"Regional Transmission Organization"?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hoerensagen 3y ago
  Yes.according to Wikipedia: A RTO in the US is a TSO that coordinates, controls, and monitors a multi-state electric grid. The voluntary creation of RTOs was initiated by FERC Order No. 2000, issued on December 20, 1999. RTOs typically perform the same functions as ISOs but cover a larger geographic area.

gnabgib 3y ago

This story references the electrek story (already posted [0]), although the Heimdall post from October[1] (also referenced) seems to have the best info. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38983886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38983886 [1]: https://heimdallpower.com/us/arva-customer-story-magic-ball/ https://heimdallpower.com/us/arva-customer-story-magic-ball/

NotYourLawyer 3y ago

Good lord, please don’t do this to hyperlinks.

ethagknight 3y ago

Magic Balls aka temperature sensors that allow transmission lines to be overloaded based on environmental conditions, meaning more capacity across existing lines when conditions are favorable.

amelius 3y ago
+1 Thank you.
aaron695 3y ago
It also has voltage, vibration, ground clearance, inclination so you are also measuring snow and wind and other scada shit. What's actually cool is I've never seen a drone install anything before. Closest thing is placing a bomb, which has an high amount of tolerance. They say it can be installed without shutting down power. Think of all the things it skips, outages and the paperwork, working from heights and the paperwork, clearance zones and the paperwork. It's probably a 20 man team down to 10.
bozhark 3y ago
Also noted "Heimdall said that advanced weather information, power-line data, and machine learning are part of the solution its experts bring to the grid."

nomel 3y ago

I can't find any information on how these are powered. Do they partly use current flow from coronal discharge? Or is it some long lasting battery?

127361 3y ago
Likely from the magnetic field from the conductor. They even have street lights that are powered this way. https://livrepository.liverpool.ac.uk/3005516/1/TPEL2436702%20Sheng.pdf https://livrepository.liverpool.ac.uk/3005516/1/TPEL2436702%... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqbIhZO7SJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqbIhZO7SJc
xnzakg 3y ago
Not sure how much I am allowed to go into detail here, but can confirm what 127361 wrote: the sensors harvest power from the electromagnetic field in normal use. However, considering "power outage detection" is a selling point, you can draw your own conclusions about there being some power storage onboard ;)
- bozhark 3y ago
  power harvest and large/super caps? neat
  - nomel 3y ago
    I think the first assumption should be a boring old battery. Probably some lead acid type, since discharge would be very very rare.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  probably patented by now? disclosed yet?
Paddywack 3y ago
A few years ago I was thinking of how to use powerlines to recharge drones using the electromagnetic field. Imagine a drone hanging from a line like a bat, recharging in remote areas. I think MIT had a patent for that. This could be the perfect use case for that too..?

salty_biscuits 3y ago

Just for a bit of background, transmission companies want to know the temperature of transmission lines because the dynamic clearance of the line to the ground as the current heats the wire limits the max current. Surprisingly complex to model accurately as it is quite dynamic (sometimes the conductor is pinned with the insulator and it swings, or sometimes it can slip through, etc, etc).

abestic9 3y ago

I'm not a fan of the manufacturer dubbing these "Magic Balls", when "sensor spheres" or even "Neuron" from the original article linked in this thread, is more than sufficient. We're not trying to appeal to home consumers here. Maybe it's for politicians... Cool project though, transmission costs account for a large proportion of energy delivery.

bozhark 3y ago
it's probably for Americans

layer8 3y ago

Those hyperlinks are pretty ballsy.