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I assume this works like traditional cellular roaming, no? So this would mean you have to be a customer of one of the service providers to get reciprocated roam

I assume this works like traditional cellular roaming, no? So this would mean you have to be a customer of one of the service providers to get reciprocated roaming capabilities abroad.

modeless 3y ago
Yes, you would need service with one of the partners to get roaming on all of them. Although on terrestrial networks in the US at least 911 service is supposed to work even on phones without any carrier plan. Maybe they can eventually work it out so that texting emergency services works on any phone anywhere globally even without service. That would be a great achievement for humanity.
- 14 3y ago
  Yes it would be a fantastic achievement. I was saying in another comment what is your he movie industry going to do when there is no such thing as no service, a common theme used in almost every scary movie?
  - connicpu 3y ago
    Lead roof shingles?
    - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
      Not even joking, a place I was renting had dead spots due to this. I spent ages working out why the “older” part of the house had no cell coverage…
  - cwillu 3y ago
    Sunspots
  - ericcumbee 3y ago
    Dead battery
- lxgr 3y ago
  I think that's only technically possible for voice 911 calls. Texting 911 requires you to be attached to a network, which in turn requires a phone plan and potentially a roaming agreement. Changing this would require some deep architectural changes to the 3GPP specs, or just allowing anyone on but filtering out all non-911 texts.
  - modeless 3y ago
    Interesting. I expect that SpaceX will start supporting voice calls with this system in the not too distant future, so maybe that will make it work automatically. Unless the telcos can get their act together before then and change their standards to support text-to-911 without a service agreement.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      That would be great, but in addition to network-side changes it would definitely require changes to existing baseband firmware as well – i.e. it's not happening for existing phones.
      - eternityforest 3y ago
        Is the baseband firmware not updatable?
        modeless 3y ago
        Manufacturers have no incentive to update it with new features. Their incentive is to require you to buy a new phone to get those features even if the old hardware could theoretically support it.
        eternityforest 3y ago
        Google seems to be pretty happy to provide updates. If my phone lasts 8 years I'll be even more likely to buy another Pixel after that time. Especially when they are making money continually the whole time by selling everyone's data, even if you could keep the same phone for 20 years.
- tjohns 3y ago
  Texting 911 via satellite usually involves a relay through a private monitoring company (like GEOS), who then places a voice call to local emergency departments on your behalf to activate SAR. With satellite based SOS, there's no guarantee that the local 911 can support texts, or even that there's an equivalent to 911 (think calling from Antarctica or the middle of the ocean). It's complicated and relatively expensive to coordinate - which means it's unlikely they can open this up for phones without a plan. (Compare with traditional cellular 911, which is all government funded.) The US Air Force RCC does this as a taxpayer-funded service for PLBs, but they don't support any private satellite services. Long-winded way of saying there's a lot that would need to change on the backend and funding model to make that work without being tied to a paid cellular plan.
  - mynameisnoone 3y ago
    Heck, I've been in places in California where E911 didn't work. One time, the 911 operator didn't have position information despite being then on Verizon with an iPhone. Verizon followed up that everything about their system worked, but it's that N municipal 911 operation centers must be correctly configured and tested to be interoperable x M carriers x P phones. My conclusion is there appears to be no effective oversight over all American 911 operation centers to ensure they continuously meet a minimum set of standards.
joshspankit 3y ago
If the tech is still what was announced, the satellite does the heavy lifting and the cell sees it as a bog-standard cell tower. That means the real answer to your question doesn’t have a single answer since it’s in the legal and contractual parts of the equation.

I assume this works like traditional cellular roaming, no? So this would mean you have to be a customer of one of the service providers to get reciprocated roaming capabilities abroad.

modeless 3y ago

Yes, you would need service with one of the partners to get roaming on all of them. Although on terrestrial networks in the US at least 911 service is supposed to work even on phones without any carrier plan. Maybe they can eventually work it out so that texting emergency services works on any phone anywhere globally even without service. That would be a great achievement for humanity.

14 3y ago
Yes it would be a fantastic achievement. I was saying in another comment what is your he movie industry going to do when there is no such thing as no service, a common theme used in almost every scary movie?
- connicpu 3y ago
  Lead roof shingles?
  - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
    Not even joking, a place I was renting had dead spots due to this. I spent ages working out why the “older” part of the house had no cell coverage…
- cwillu 3y ago
  Sunspots
- ericcumbee 3y ago
  Dead battery
lxgr 3y ago
I think that's only technically possible for voice 911 calls. Texting 911 requires you to be attached to a network, which in turn requires a phone plan and potentially a roaming agreement. Changing this would require some deep architectural changes to the 3GPP specs, or just allowing anyone on but filtering out all non-911 texts.
- modeless 3y ago
  Interesting. I expect that SpaceX will start supporting voice calls with this system in the not too distant future, so maybe that will make it work automatically. Unless the telcos can get their act together before then and change their standards to support text-to-911 without a service agreement.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    That would be great, but in addition to network-side changes it would definitely require changes to existing baseband firmware as well – i.e. it's not happening for existing phones.
    - eternityforest 3y ago
      Is the baseband firmware not updatable?
      - modeless 3y ago
        Manufacturers have no incentive to update it with new features. Their incentive is to require you to buy a new phone to get those features even if the old hardware could theoretically support it.
        eternityforest 3y ago
        Google seems to be pretty happy to provide updates. If my phone lasts 8 years I'll be even more likely to buy another Pixel after that time. Especially when they are making money continually the whole time by selling everyone's data, even if you could keep the same phone for 20 years.
tjohns 3y ago
Texting 911 via satellite usually involves a relay through a private monitoring company (like GEOS), who then places a voice call to local emergency departments on your behalf to activate SAR. With satellite based SOS, there's no guarantee that the local 911 can support texts, or even that there's an equivalent to 911 (think calling from Antarctica or the middle of the ocean). It's complicated and relatively expensive to coordinate - which means it's unlikely they can open this up for phones without a plan. (Compare with traditional cellular 911, which is all government funded.) The US Air Force RCC does this as a taxpayer-funded service for PLBs, but they don't support any private satellite services. Long-winded way of saying there's a lot that would need to change on the backend and funding model to make that work without being tied to a paid cellular plan.
- mynameisnoone 3y ago
  Heck, I've been in places in California where E911 didn't work. One time, the 911 operator didn't have position information despite being then on Verizon with an iPhone. Verizon followed up that everything about their system worked, but it's that N municipal 911 operation centers must be correctly configured and tested to be interoperable x M carriers x P phones. My conclusion is there appears to be no effective oversight over all American 911 operation centers to ensure they continuously meet a minimum set of standards.

joshspankit 3y ago

If the tech is still what was announced, the satellite does the heavy lifting and the cell sees it as a bog-standard cell tower. That means the real answer to your question doesn’t have a single answer since it’s in the legal and contractual parts of the equation.