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A bank sends out two different mailers to see which gets a higher response rate. A politician tests different versions of his stump speech to see which gets mor

A bank sends out two different mailers to see which gets a higher response rate. A politician tests different versions of his stump speech to see which gets more applause. A standup comedian tries different variants of a joke to see which gets more laughs. A grocery store chain tests different store layouts to see which encourages more spending on expensive high margin items. A big box store tests different doorbuster sales to see which gets more people into the store. A city government tests whether changing a traffic light pattern decreases delays at the intersection. Unless you’re a hermit you are an unwitting participant in nonconsensual human experiments on a daily basis.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
Comedians should just pick one joke and stick to it, it's unethical otherwise as some people might miss the laughs and others might laugh too much.
refulgentis 3y ago
I said the term of art thing to try to ward off a reply like this, I didn't want you to have to put in the effort.
- CrazyStat 3y ago
  Using weasel words doesn’t make your claim any more correct.
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    It's not "weasel words" -- there's a difference between an "experiment where city government changes traffic light patterns" and "experiment as in Institutional Review Board", and I suggest relaxing in general.
    - CrazyStat 3y ago
      No, there’s not. Any of the examples I gave could be conducted by university researchers subject to the IRB, or by corporate/government researchers not subject to an IRB and informed consent requirements. When I worked in my university’s statistical consulting center in graduate school I could have consulted on the same experiment either subject to IRB or not depending on who the client was.
      - refulgentis 3y ago
        Thank you for the shift in tone: I'm honestly unsure what you mean, steelmanning: you worked as a consultant at a university and not all work you did involving experiments was for IRB experiments --- I guess what I'd say is, the fact you're able to make that distinction does seem to confirm my initial observation that the grandparent of my original post in this thread was drawing on IRB-style experiments to condemn excesses of colloquial-style experiments in tech.
        CrazyStat 3y ago
        No, there is no distinction between “IRB-style experiments” and “colloquial-style experiments.” Exactly the same experiment could be subject to IRB or not depending on who was running it. The distinction you’re trying to make does not exist.
        refulgentis 3y ago
        > there is no distinction between “IRB-style experiments” and “colloquial-style experiments Fascinating. How were you able to draw a distinction in your previous comment, then? :)
        CrazyStat 3y ago
        I didn’t. I drew a distinction between experiments subject to IRB and experiments not subject to IRB, not as a function of the type of experiment, but as a function of other factors—namely who is doing the experiment. I thought this was pretty clear: > When I worked in my university’s statistical consulting center in graduate school I could have consulted on the same experiment either subject to IRB or not depending on who the client was. (emphasis added). Somehow you misread it.

mewpmewp2 3y ago

Comedians should just pick one joke and stick to it, it's unethical otherwise as some people might miss the laughs and others might laugh too much.

refulgentis 3y ago

I said the term of art thing to try to ward off a reply like this, I didn't want you to have to put in the effort.

CrazyStat 3y ago
Using weasel words doesn’t make your claim any more correct.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  It's not "weasel words" -- there's a difference between an "experiment where city government changes traffic light patterns" and "experiment as in Institutional Review Board", and I suggest relaxing in general.
  - CrazyStat 3y ago
    No, there’s not. Any of the examples I gave could be conducted by university researchers subject to the IRB, or by corporate/government researchers not subject to an IRB and informed consent requirements. When I worked in my university’s statistical consulting center in graduate school I could have consulted on the same experiment either subject to IRB or not depending on who the client was.
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      Thank you for the shift in tone: I'm honestly unsure what you mean, steelmanning: you worked as a consultant at a university and not all work you did involving experiments was for IRB experiments --- I guess what I'd say is, the fact you're able to make that distinction does seem to confirm my initial observation that the grandparent of my original post in this thread was drawing on IRB-style experiments to condemn excesses of colloquial-style experiments in tech.
      - CrazyStat 3y ago
        No, there is no distinction between “IRB-style experiments” and “colloquial-style experiments.” Exactly the same experiment could be subject to IRB or not depending on who was running it. The distinction you’re trying to make does not exist.
        refulgentis 3y ago
        > there is no distinction between “IRB-style experiments” and “colloquial-style experiments Fascinating. How were you able to draw a distinction in your previous comment, then? :)
        CrazyStat 3y ago
        I didn’t. I drew a distinction between experiments subject to IRB and experiments not subject to IRB, not as a function of the type of experiment, but as a function of other factors—namely who is doing the experiment. I thought this was pretty clear: > When I worked in my university’s statistical consulting center in graduate school I could have consulted on the same experiment either subject to IRB or not depending on who the client was. (emphasis added). Somehow you misread it.