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I hate what advertising has done to the modern web just as much as anyone, but this strikes me as hyperbole. Does making this sort of claim not make you… tired?

I hate what advertising has done to the modern web just as much as anyone, but this strikes me as hyperbole. Does making this sort of claim not make you… tired? What’s the point of arguing like this? Nazi Germany and the Tuskegee Experiment are examples of “unethical, non-consensual human experimentation”. A/B testing features of software usually doesn’t make the same list.

asib 3y ago
That's a bit of a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be either Nazism or totally chill.
refulgentis 3y ago
Godwin's Law.* If you're from a certain background it's exactly as described. In academia, frankly probably everywhere but tech, experiments as a term of art require consent when they involve humans. * n.b. you really should have left it out, it was a good post through "hyperbole", got close-minded in the next sentence, then just sort of blew the hatch doors off. Sometimes we just don't know something someone else knows. Not understanding someone else doesn't require they have a psychological condition, much less one worth noting.
- mindcrime 3y ago
  Please stop. "Godwin's Law" is irrelevant bullshit. It's not a "law" and it doesn't prove anything, or do anything except add noise to the conversation.
  - basil-rash 3y ago
    Right? Parent is basically saying “wow it’s so unfortunate that you have forced me to end the conversation here, I’d have really liked to continue, but it’d be against the (entirely made up, by me) law”.
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      Where? N.b. "godwin's Law" is the famous joke that as an Internet discussion approaches infinity length, hitler will be brought up Not a secret message saying discussion over lol
      - basil-rash 3y ago
        The *
- CrazyStat 3y ago
  A bank sends out two different mailers to see which gets a higher response rate. A politician tests different versions of his stump speech to see which gets more applause. A standup comedian tries different variants of a joke to see which gets more laughs. A grocery store chain tests different store layouts to see which encourages more spending on expensive high margin items. A big box store tests different doorbuster sales to see which gets more people into the store. A city government tests whether changing a traffic light pattern decreases delays at the intersection. Unless you’re a hermit you are an unwitting participant in nonconsensual human experiments on a daily basis.
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    Comedians should just pick one joke and stick to it, it's unethical otherwise as some people might miss the laughs and others might laugh too much.
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    I said the term of art thing to try to ward off a reply like this, I didn't want you to have to put in the effort.
    - CrazyStat 3y ago
      Using weasel words doesn’t make your claim any more correct.
      - refulgentis 3y ago
        It's not "weasel words" -- there's a difference between an "experiment where city government changes traffic light patterns" and "experiment as in Institutional Review Board", and I suggest relaxing in general.
        CrazyStat 3y ago
        No, there’s not. Any of the examples I gave could be conducted by university researchers subject to the IRB, or by corporate/government researchers not subject to an IRB and informed consent requirements. When I worked in my university’s statistical consulting center in graduate school I could have consulted on the same experiment either subject to IRB or not depending on who the client was.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
> Does making this sort of claim not make you… tired? Nope. Being used as an unwitting guinea pig for a trillion dollar corporation sure as hell makes me tired though. It's extremely tiresome and demoralizing, knowing that just so much as browsing their website contributes to their profits. Basically we should have to consent for them to profit off of us in any way.

asib 3y ago

That's a bit of a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be either Nazism or totally chill.

refulgentis 3y ago

Godwin's Law.* If you're from a certain background it's exactly as described. In academia, frankly probably everywhere but tech, experiments as a term of art require consent when they involve humans. * n.b. you really should have left it out, it was a good post through "hyperbole", got close-minded in the next sentence, then just sort of blew the hatch doors off. Sometimes we just don't know something someone else knows. Not understanding someone else doesn't require they have a psychological condition, much less one worth noting.

mindcrime 3y ago
Please stop. "Godwin's Law" is irrelevant bullshit. It's not a "law" and it doesn't prove anything, or do anything except add noise to the conversation.
- basil-rash 3y ago
  Right? Parent is basically saying “wow it’s so unfortunate that you have forced me to end the conversation here, I’d have really liked to continue, but it’d be against the (entirely made up, by me) law”.
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    Where? N.b. "godwin's Law" is the famous joke that as an Internet discussion approaches infinity length, hitler will be brought up Not a secret message saying discussion over lol
    - basil-rash 3y ago
      The *
CrazyStat 3y ago
A bank sends out two different mailers to see which gets a higher response rate. A politician tests different versions of his stump speech to see which gets more applause. A standup comedian tries different variants of a joke to see which gets more laughs. A grocery store chain tests different store layouts to see which encourages more spending on expensive high margin items. A big box store tests different doorbuster sales to see which gets more people into the store. A city government tests whether changing a traffic light pattern decreases delays at the intersection. Unless you’re a hermit you are an unwitting participant in nonconsensual human experiments on a daily basis.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Comedians should just pick one joke and stick to it, it's unethical otherwise as some people might miss the laughs and others might laugh too much.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  I said the term of art thing to try to ward off a reply like this, I didn't want you to have to put in the effort.
  - CrazyStat 3y ago
    Using weasel words doesn’t make your claim any more correct.
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      It's not "weasel words" -- there's a difference between an "experiment where city government changes traffic light patterns" and "experiment as in Institutional Review Board", and I suggest relaxing in general.
      - CrazyStat 3y ago
        No, there’s not. Any of the examples I gave could be conducted by university researchers subject to the IRB, or by corporate/government researchers not subject to an IRB and informed consent requirements. When I worked in my university’s statistical consulting center in graduate school I could have consulted on the same experiment either subject to IRB or not depending on who the client was.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

> Does making this sort of claim not make you… tired? Nope. Being used as an unwitting guinea pig for a trillion dollar corporation sure as hell makes me tired though. It's extremely tiresome and demoralizing, knowing that just so much as browsing their website contributes to their profits. Basically we should have to consent for them to profit off of us in any way.