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If this scandal was about incompetence only, it would be outrageous. But this was at least a deliberate, criminal cover up at the expense of hundreds of innoce
by rich_sasha 3y ago
If this scandal was about incompetence only, it would be outrageous.
But this was at least a deliberate, criminal cover up at the expense of hundreds of innocent people, maybe worse, implemented with tools intended for fighting serious crime. It seems unbelievable that this could happen in a civilized country.
- HPsquared 3y agoIt does shatter the illusion somewhat.
- 127361 3y agoThey had Operation Ore in the early 2000s, thousands of innocent people were arrested and it resulted in 44 suicides. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/apr/26/comment.society https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/apr/26/comment.s... https://insidetime.org/newsround/massive-miscarriage-of-justice/ https://insidetime.org/newsround/massive-miscarriage-of-just...
- grumpyprole 3y agoIt also remains to be seen whether there will ever be any accountability. So far there has only been the promise to hand back a CBE.
- alexriddle 3y agoWhich isn't even legally permissible, there is no way to 'give it back' (although you could stop using the title) - it can only be taken from you, which has to be done by the king on recommendation of the prime minister.
- Angostura 3y agoI can’t think of an instance where giving it back has been refused. It certainly won’t in this instance
- denton-scratch 3y agoI can't think of an instance when it's been given back. You get a notification that you're being considered for an honour; if you're going to turn it down, you do it at that stage, before it's been conferred.
- denton-scratch 3y agoYeah, that's what I thought. Her promise to return the "honour" looks to me like an attempt to avoid having it seized off her. These "honours" (knighthoods, peerages etc.) should now be referred to as "disgraces". Liz Truss handed out an honour for roughly each four days of her incumbency as Prime Minister, nearly all to crazies from the extreme right of the Conservative Party. We already have way more peers than can actually be stuffed into the House Of Lords.
- lostlogin 3y ago> These "honours" (knighthoods, peerages etc.) should now be referred to as "disgraces". Boris Johnston’s attempts to knight his father and Russian oligarchs donating money to the conservatives for titles are examples of this.
- wrboyce 3y agoNot to mention that “Owen” woman who nobody seems to know anything about but is this spitting image of his ex-wife and has that trademark Johnson shade of hair.
- tjpnz 3y agoPaula Vennells handing back her CBE doesn't get remotely close to accountability. Many won't feel a sense of closure until she's aggressively prosecuted and languishes in a prison cell for the rest of her years. I'm actually surprised at the restraint shown by ITV in her depiction, because in real life she bears many of the hallmarks of a cartoon villain.
- jbstack 3y agoI agree with the sentiment, but it's important to add that this should only happen if it's proven to the criminal standard of proof, in a court room, that she was complicit.
- pi-e-sigma 3y agoWhy can't we apply the same standard of proof that was used to prosecute and sentence innocent people in this scandal?
- lostlogin 3y agoWhy can’t this burden of proof be applied when giving out awards? The various paedophiles and fraudsters might be caught earlier. Another one today: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/12/british-conductor-jan-latham-koenig-charged-with-child-sexual-abuse https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/12/british-cond...
- krisoft 3y agoBecause two wrongs doesn't make a right.
- pi-e-sigma 3y agoOn the contrary. Applying unjust law to the powerful and well connected people is the best and quickest way to get such law removed.
- 123pie123 3y ago
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoI bet Paula Vennells is lying about that. It sounds like some kind of PR statement to deal with the petition getting over a million votes to strip her of her honour.
- ziddoap 3y agoFor someone not familiar with the acronym, what is CBE? A quick search shows me 371 different matching acronyms, ranging from the "Calgary Board of Education", to "current best estimate", to "Central Bank of Egypt".
- Two9A 3y ago"CBE" refers to Commander of the most excellent order of the British Empire [0] which is a title conferred by the monarch on those deemed to have performed especially well in the service of the nation. So you can see how its value might be diluted by this instance. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pi-e-sigma 3y agoCommander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) This is awarded for having a prominent but lesser role at national level, or a leading role at regional level. You can also get one for a distinguished, innovative contribution to any area. https://www.gov.uk/honours/types-of-honours-and-awards https://www.gov.uk/honours/types-of-honours-and-awards
- ziddoap 3y agoInteresting, thanks! I would have thought that'd be shortened to "COBE".
- pi-e-sigma 3y agoOne should rather ask why the UK still hands out orders that have 'British Empire' in their title :)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- flerchin 3y agoDoes a CBE confer some benefits?
- tialaramex 3y agoNot really. It's shiny. It's like a real life ding/chievo/whatever you call them these days. It's important enough that you can write it on like headed notepaper without seeming like a complete jerk. If I see somebody sent me a letter from "A Smith CBE" that seems reasonable I guess they have a CBE, how about that - if they write "A Smith BA(Hons)" I know they're a terrible person - who cares that you have a fucking undergraduate degree? Am I supposed to be impressed? One more notch up makes you a knight. So, if you're collecting and this is early in your career that's a good sign you could get there. For example when I was a research student 20+ years ago, my Head of Department was looking to get herself some Honours, and these days she's Dame Wendy. But like, it doesn't come with a heap of money or anything as far as I know. You briefly get to meet Charlie I guess, but I met his previous wife once (when I was a kid) and she was just some woman, so I doubt he's any different.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoI think the best way forward is for everyone involved in it at Fujitsu and the Post Office gets prosecuted for taking part in a criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Certainly Paula Vennells should absolutely be in prison for her oversight and deliberate destruction of people's lives.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ploxiln 3y agoIt's always the cover-up that makes it truly terrible. Like Watergate ... or when police misbehave in general ... it's always the desperate cover-up.
- lannisterstark 3y agoI once read a quote that "most of UK is a -third world country- desperately clinging to London to prove otherwise." This doesn't help.
- JdeBP 3y agoThe simile is more colourful (and simplistic) than the reality. The poverty levels are extreme in some parts of the U.K. that are far away from London and the high population density belt that goes through Birmingham to Manchester, lower than in some of the places in the E.U. that one thinks of as the poorer places in Europe. And the infrastructure gets almost zero attention and lip service from London-centric thinking. (Remember the cancellation of the northern parts of HS2?) But some things are the same as London. I'd mention some, but they would be highly ironic given the subject headlined. (-: