7 ms·

Finally switched to Kagi when I realized Google could not find a particular ThreeJS class doc page for me no matter what keywords I used, I had to paste the ver

by causal 3y ago

Finally switched to Kagi when I realized Google could not find a particular ThreeJS class doc page for me no matter what keywords I used, I had to paste the very URL of the page for it to appear at the top of my search results. Kagi got it first try using the class name. Paid search is the way, ad incentives are at odds with search. Made Kagi my address bar default search and it's been great.

Gibson_v1 3y ago
Maybe I'll try Kagi. I've had a hell of a time googling docs lately. I've been experimenting with different libraries on somde side projects and it feels like I'm always scrolling past stuff like GeeksForGeeks and various sites that look like some sort of AI generated stuff just to get to official docs or github links.
- IanCal 3y ago
  It's great. I find Google better when I'm actually looking for products, though that's partly it's not as good as localizing results. The nice thing is you can just whack g! in front of the query and it'll bump you over to Google. It's fast, nice, no ads. Lack of history is a pro or a con or both depending on personal preference.
- jhgorrell 3y ago
  I have been happy with Kagi -- Like that I can change the site rankings on the results.
- schoenobates 3y ago
  I've been a happy Kagi user for a few months now. As someone else has already mentioned, shopping etc is often better elsewhere, but for 95% of my search I use Kagi exclusively.
worldsayshi 3y ago
So does that mean that the free (as in beer) internet is dying and ad-tech killed it?
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  The free Internet was only free because corporate interests didn't see it as an avenue worth pursuing, yet. It was a niche curiosity full of nerds talking about their interests, in boring text of all things, and nobody was shopping. Now that's flipped. Now everyone is on the Internet, and everybody's got built-in payment methods, so corporations have leveraged their power in the space. And like every other third space we had, it's been commodified to piss and back so you can't so much as walk down an e-street anymore without being screamed at by 900 assholes selling drop-shipped watches, pills to make your dick hard, mobile games that are 90% softcore porn by volume, and of course, weight loss drugs. I hate the way we ruin everything.
  - klondike_klive 3y ago
    IncidentLly I've noticed a disturbing uptick in borderline sketchy ads on YouTube recently, things that used to be subliminal in those "doctors hate her" banners are now overt and unskippable.
- wharvle 3y ago
  1) No truly-free search can do a good job on the modern Internet. It's too hard. "Free" search must be ad-supported to have any hope of achieving good-enough utility. 2) ... But that's because the incentives of ads (and affiliate programs, which are also just advertising) cause that to be the case. (And of course ad-supported search is also doomed to "enshittification", for reasons that Google explained back at the beginning, then years later ignored to make Line Go Up—so yes, paid is the only kind that can be good, now, and yes, that's because of ad-tech, on multiple fronts)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - stcredzero 3y ago
    I remember when the angry mob, lead by the Penny Arcade guys came after Scott McCloud for advocating the end of the ad funded Internet in favor of a micropayment driven one. Turns out, he was right!
drcongo 3y ago
I had the same experience with a slightly esoteric Django class back when Kagi first appeared. I subscribed straight away and every now and then when I end up on any other search engine I'm remind what a good decision that was.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
Agreed: Kagi is straight from the future and worth every cent.
novemp 3y ago
Too bad Kagi is also investing in LLMs.
- digging 3y ago
  Why is that bad?
  - rchaud 3y ago
    Because Kagi is doing what Google was in 2008; taking a query and returning links as results. Indexing the web doesn't need an LLM. Google needs an LLM because they have a business need to answer the question for you, thus keeping you on Google.
    - digging 3y ago
      It's not the same. Kagi is trying out multiple products including ones that depend on LLMs (eg. a summarizer). But they're not changing the core web search product by inserting these alternate features. If they do, I'll cancel my subscription and I think others will, too. Since Kagi is supported by user subscriptions instead of ads, they'll have to pay attention to that or collapse.
- xwiz 3y ago
  I don't think the issue is LLMs inherently, it's the misapplication. Kagi has siloed the LLM content into the 'Quick Answer' and 'Assistant' sections, and it generates on the fly from search results. (Plus, the 'Expert' LLM cites the references it used.) I think the issue will come when there isn't a clear delineation between real and artificial text, or when artificial text is presented more prominently than real text, as in the article.
- nunez 3y ago
  They are, but you don't have to use those features. I think you can disable the summarizer as well. To wit, the few queries I've thrown at !fast were pretty inaccurate.
mangodrunk 3y ago
Google was amazing at one point in time. In search of profit, it got worse. Maybe Kagi can withstand it, but I don’t see much difference between one company and another.
nunez 3y ago
Absolutely love Kagi for everything except shopping and maps.

by causal 3y ago

Gibson_v1 3y ago

Maybe I'll try Kagi. I've had a hell of a time googling docs lately. I've been experimenting with different libraries on somde side projects and it feels like I'm always scrolling past stuff like GeeksForGeeks and various sites that look like some sort of AI generated stuff just to get to official docs or github links.

IanCal 3y ago
It's great. I find Google better when I'm actually looking for products, though that's partly it's not as good as localizing results. The nice thing is you can just whack g! in front of the query and it'll bump you over to Google. It's fast, nice, no ads. Lack of history is a pro or a con or both depending on personal preference.
jhgorrell 3y ago
I have been happy with Kagi -- Like that I can change the site rankings on the results.
schoenobates 3y ago
I've been a happy Kagi user for a few months now. As someone else has already mentioned, shopping etc is often better elsewhere, but for 95% of my search I use Kagi exclusively.

worldsayshi 3y ago

So does that mean that the free (as in beer) internet is dying and ad-tech killed it?

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
The free Internet was only free because corporate interests didn't see it as an avenue worth pursuing, yet. It was a niche curiosity full of nerds talking about their interests, in boring text of all things, and nobody was shopping. Now that's flipped. Now everyone is on the Internet, and everybody's got built-in payment methods, so corporations have leveraged their power in the space. And like every other third space we had, it's been commodified to piss and back so you can't so much as walk down an e-street anymore without being screamed at by 900 assholes selling drop-shipped watches, pills to make your dick hard, mobile games that are 90% softcore porn by volume, and of course, weight loss drugs. I hate the way we ruin everything.
- klondike_klive 3y ago
  IncidentLly I've noticed a disturbing uptick in borderline sketchy ads on YouTube recently, things that used to be subliminal in those "doctors hate her" banners are now overt and unskippable.
wharvle 3y ago
1) No truly-free search can do a good job on the modern Internet. It's too hard. "Free" search must be ad-supported to have any hope of achieving good-enough utility. 2) ... But that's because the incentives of ads (and affiliate programs, which are also just advertising) cause that to be the case. (And of course ad-supported search is also doomed to "enshittification", for reasons that Google explained back at the beginning, then years later ignored to make Line Go Up—so yes, paid is the only kind that can be good, now, and yes, that's because of ad-tech, on multiple fronts)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- stcredzero 3y ago
  I remember when the angry mob, lead by the Penny Arcade guys came after Scott McCloud for advocating the end of the ad funded Internet in favor of a micropayment driven one. Turns out, he was right!

drcongo 3y ago

I had the same experience with a slightly esoteric Django class back when Kagi first appeared. I subscribed straight away and every now and then when I end up on any other search engine I'm remind what a good decision that was.

jjtheblunt 3y ago

Agreed: Kagi is straight from the future and worth every cent.

novemp 3y ago

Too bad Kagi is also investing in LLMs.

digging 3y ago
Why is that bad?
- rchaud 3y ago
  Because Kagi is doing what Google was in 2008; taking a query and returning links as results. Indexing the web doesn't need an LLM. Google needs an LLM because they have a business need to answer the question for you, thus keeping you on Google.
  - digging 3y ago
    It's not the same. Kagi is trying out multiple products including ones that depend on LLMs (eg. a summarizer). But they're not changing the core web search product by inserting these alternate features. If they do, I'll cancel my subscription and I think others will, too. Since Kagi is supported by user subscriptions instead of ads, they'll have to pay attention to that or collapse.
xwiz 3y ago
I don't think the issue is LLMs inherently, it's the misapplication. Kagi has siloed the LLM content into the 'Quick Answer' and 'Assistant' sections, and it generates on the fly from search results. (Plus, the 'Expert' LLM cites the references it used.) I think the issue will come when there isn't a clear delineation between real and artificial text, or when artificial text is presented more prominently than real text, as in the article.
nunez 3y ago
They are, but you don't have to use those features. I think you can disable the summarizer as well. To wit, the few queries I've thrown at !fast were pretty inaccurate.

mangodrunk 3y ago

Google was amazing at one point in time. In search of profit, it got worse. Maybe Kagi can withstand it, but I don’t see much difference between one company and another.

nunez 3y ago

Absolutely love Kagi for everything except shopping and maps.