3 ms·

The GP did a great job summarizing the original post and defining a lot of cryptic jargon that I didn't anticipate would generate so much conversation, and I'd

The GP did a great job summarizing the original post and defining a lot of cryptic jargon that I didn't anticipate would generate so much conversation, and I'd wager did it without a blind LLM shot (though these days even that is possible). I endorse that summary without reservation. And the above is substantially what I said, and undoubtedly would find a better reception with a larger audience. I'm troubled though, because I already sanitize what I write and say by passing it through a GPT-style "alignment" filter in almost every interaction precisely because I know my authentic self is brash/abrasive/neuro-atypical/etc. and it's more advantageous to talk like ChatGPT than to talk like Ben. Hacker News is one of a few places real or digital where I just talk like Ben. Maybe I'm an outlier in how different I am and it'll just be me that is sad to start talking like GPT, and maybe the net change in society will just be a little drift towards brighter and more diplomatic. But either way it's kind of a drag: either passing me and people like me through a filter is net positive, which would suck but I guess I'd get on board, or it actually edits out contrarian originality in toto, in which case the world goes all Huxley really fast. Door #3 where we net people out on accomplishment and optics with a strong tilt towards accomplishment doesn't seem to be on the menu.

cgeier 3y ago
I would have said there is no problem with your style (nothing brash/abrasive), but you used a lot of jargon, that people who are not very deep into LLMs (large language models) would not understand. Interests of hackernews visitors are very diverse, not everyone follows LLMs that closely.
- smeej 3y ago
  This was my take exactly. I read the original and thought, "Wow, this sounds like really interesting stuff this poster us excited about. I wish I knew what the terms meant, though. I'll have to come back to this when I have more time and look up the terms." I was pleasantly surprised to find a glossary immediately following, which tells me it wasn't the tone of the post, but the shorthand terminology that was unfamiliar to me that was my issue. I think writing in "Ben's voice" is great. There are just going to be times when your audience needs a bit more context around your terminology, that's all.
a_petrov 3y ago
I used to struggle a lot in communication for talking to people in the authentic self way you just described. Being too direct and telling my point of view in such a way has caused tension with family, colleagues and the girlfriend. The moment I change the way I talk and say instead of "That's bullshit, let's move away from it" to "That could be a challenging and rewarding experience", and I can already see the advantage. I rather like to talk the way I want, but I see it as challenging and not that rewarding as people seem to get more sensitive. That made me wonder if the way GPT-style chatbots communicate with humans would make humans expect the same way of communication from other humans.
deleted 3y ago
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zemvpferreira 3y ago
Porque no los dos? While I truly appreciate your OP and could grok it even though I don't know the tech, the summary and rewrites saved me a ton of googling. I hope one day we have a 'see vernacular/original' button for all thought and communication so people can choose what level to engage in without the author having to change their communication style. Translation for personal dialects, so to say.
mwigdahl 3y ago
I think the only thing you really need to do is unpack your jargon so people who aren't exactly you can understand what you're saying. Even on this site, there are folks with all sorts of different experiences and cultural context, so shortcuts in phrasing don't always come across clearly. For example, "in which case the world goes all Huxley really fast." "Huxley" apparently means something to you. Would it mean anything at all to someone who hasn't read any Aldous Huxley? As someone who _has_, I still had to think about it -- a lot. I assumed you're referring to a work of his literature rather than something he actually believed, as Huxley's beliefs about the world certainly had a place for the contrarian and the original. Further, I assume you are referring to his most well-known work, _Brave New World_, rather than (for example) _Island_, so you're not saying that people would be eating a lot of psychedelic mushrooms and living together in tolerant peace and love. I don't at all think you need to sound like GPT to be a successful communicator, but you will be more successful the more you consider your audience and avoid constructions that they're unlikely to be able to understand without research.
bart_spoon 3y ago
People aren’t passing you through a filter because you are brash and undiplomatic and “unaligned”, it’s because your communication style is borderline incomprehensible.
- engcoach 3y ago
  FWIW I found it comprehensible just jargon-laden
boringg 3y ago
Real Ben >> GPT Ben. However if you are going to the wider world you problem need to self varnish a lot (i know i would have to). You are fine in here! What you are alluding to is quite similar to the that “instagram face” that everyone pursues and self filters for except its more about your communication and thoughts. Also the argument that you need to reach a wider audience i dint think isn't necessary unless you want the wider audience to comment and engage. The internet is the great homogenizer soon(ish) we will be uniform.
yashap 3y ago
Personally I had no problem with your post being too abrasive or anything like that, it was just hard to understand because it was full of jargon.
jaaaisuujudjdn 3y ago
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jaaaisuujudjdn 3y ago
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drittich 3y ago
I think this is just in the short-term. In the long term GPTs will retain our personality while making the message more understandable - which I think is the most important thing. Although McLuhan would disagree. Benefits, though, might include AI making cross-cultural translation so you can converse with someone with a different language and very different experiences and still understand each other. I think that's good? Maybe?
euiq 3y ago
Your posts are my favorite thing about Hacker News, both because of the things you're saying and the way you're saying them; please don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

cgeier 3y ago

I would have said there is no problem with your style (nothing brash/abrasive), but you used a lot of jargon, that people who are not very deep into LLMs (large language models) would not understand. Interests of hackernews visitors are very diverse, not everyone follows LLMs that closely.

smeej 3y ago
This was my take exactly. I read the original and thought, "Wow, this sounds like really interesting stuff this poster us excited about. I wish I knew what the terms meant, though. I'll have to come back to this when I have more time and look up the terms." I was pleasantly surprised to find a glossary immediately following, which tells me it wasn't the tone of the post, but the shorthand terminology that was unfamiliar to me that was my issue. I think writing in "Ben's voice" is great. There are just going to be times when your audience needs a bit more context around your terminology, that's all.

a_petrov 3y ago

I used to struggle a lot in communication for talking to people in the authentic self way you just described. Being too direct and telling my point of view in such a way has caused tension with family, colleagues and the girlfriend. The moment I change the way I talk and say instead of "That's bullshit, let's move away from it" to "That could be a challenging and rewarding experience", and I can already see the advantage. I rather like to talk the way I want, but I see it as challenging and not that rewarding as people seem to get more sensitive. That made me wonder if the way GPT-style chatbots communicate with humans would make humans expect the same way of communication from other humans.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zemvpferreira 3y ago

Porque no los dos? While I truly appreciate your OP and could grok it even though I don't know the tech, the summary and rewrites saved me a ton of googling. I hope one day we have a 'see vernacular/original' button for all thought and communication so people can choose what level to engage in without the author having to change their communication style. Translation for personal dialects, so to say.

mwigdahl 3y ago

I think the only thing you really need to do is unpack your jargon so people who aren't exactly you can understand what you're saying. Even on this site, there are folks with all sorts of different experiences and cultural context, so shortcuts in phrasing don't always come across clearly. For example, "in which case the world goes all Huxley really fast." "Huxley" apparently means something to you. Would it mean anything at all to someone who hasn't read any Aldous Huxley? As someone who _has_, I still had to think about it -- a lot. I assumed you're referring to a work of his literature rather than something he actually believed, as Huxley's beliefs about the world certainly had a place for the contrarian and the original. Further, I assume you are referring to his most well-known work, _Brave New World_, rather than (for example) _Island_, so you're not saying that people would be eating a lot of psychedelic mushrooms and living together in tolerant peace and love. I don't at all think you need to sound like GPT to be a successful communicator, but you will be more successful the more you consider your audience and avoid constructions that they're unlikely to be able to understand without research.

bart_spoon 3y ago

People aren’t passing you through a filter because you are brash and undiplomatic and “unaligned”, it’s because your communication style is borderline incomprehensible.

engcoach 3y ago
FWIW I found it comprehensible just jargon-laden

boringg 3y ago

Real Ben >> GPT Ben. However if you are going to the wider world you problem need to self varnish a lot (i know i would have to). You are fine in here! What you are alluding to is quite similar to the that “instagram face” that everyone pursues and self filters for except its more about your communication and thoughts. Also the argument that you need to reach a wider audience i dint think isn't necessary unless you want the wider audience to comment and engage. The internet is the great homogenizer soon(ish) we will be uniform.

yashap 3y ago

Personally I had no problem with your post being too abrasive or anything like that, it was just hard to understand because it was full of jargon.

jaaaisuujudjdn 3y ago

[dead]

jaaaisuujudjdn 3y ago

[dead]

drittich 3y ago

I think this is just in the short-term. In the long term GPTs will retain our personality while making the message more understandable - which I think is the most important thing. Although McLuhan would disagree. Benefits, though, might include AI making cross-cultural translation so you can converse with someone with a different language and very different experiences and still understand each other. I think that's good? Maybe?

euiq 3y ago

Your posts are my favorite thing about Hacker News, both because of the things you're saying and the way you're saying them; please don't let anyone tell you otherwise.