9 ms·

Using tools is cheating? Why would I need to justify it at all?

by smabie 3y ago

guitarlimeo 3y ago
I see games as an art form, and I see that the creative decisions are in game design, like levels, puzzles, and mechanics but also in the art style. Using AI to skip over the creative process of creating a distinguished art style and assets doesn't appeal to me. It comes down to the question of how much you value the amount of human work in an art piece. When something is easy to do automagically, it loses some part of its value - to me at least, and I know I'm not alone in this. Think how easy it is to create renaissance style paintings now with AI. Do you value those as much as the original ones? It's also part of the reason why traditional film photography has started to trend again, because there are people who value the amount of human work that goes into framing and compositing when they can't be easily fixed in post process. You might think different and it's ok, just wanted to understand your reasoning.
- sanitycheck 3y ago
  This is an interesting take, I read your earlier message and assumed the morality part was about the "AI generated" artwork being (IMO) a derivation of the unauthorised unpaid use of the copyrighted work of other human artists. Traditional film photography involved a lot of darkroom tricks! You can definitely reframe a shot with an enlarger, and it's also where "dodging" and "burning" effects/tools got their names. And of course, photography itself has been thought of as cheating - "real artists paint". I think using tools in general is OK, and we already seem to draw a line between art (the creativity) and craft (technically perfect oil painting) so that seems consistent with mainstream opinion. Using "AI" for stuff currently feels a lot more like curating than making though.
  - guitarlimeo 3y ago
    TIL about those darkroom tricks! Thanks for bringing the distinction between art and craft, it's a good way to rephrase my points. My point indeed is in valuing the craftmanship in addition to the art. And with current AI generators, seeing "AI used" label in a product immediately lowers my expectations towards the craftmanship of that product. Also I'm building a traditional game with some new mechanics, so knowing that there are shortcuts now to building games like these makes me uneasy, as the craft of what was once appreciated can now be undervalued. Though I probably just need to swallow the truth.

Using tools is cheating? Why would I need to justify it at all?

by smabie 3y ago

Using tools is cheating? Why would I need to justify it at all?

I see games as an art form, and I see that the creative decisions are in game design, like levels, puzzles, and mechanics but also in the art style. Using AI to skip over the creative process of creating a distinguished art style and assets doesn't appeal to me. It comes down to the question of how much you value the amount of human work in an art piece. When something is easy to do automagically, it loses some part of its value - to me at least, and I know I'm not alone in this. Think how easy it is to create renaissance style paintings now with AI. Do you value those as much as the original ones? It's also part of the reason why traditional film photography has started to trend again, because there are people who value the amount of human work that goes into framing and compositing when they can't be easily fixed in post process. You might think different and it's ok, just wanted to understand your reasoning.

sanitycheck 3y ago
This is an interesting take, I read your earlier message and assumed the morality part was about the "AI generated" artwork being (IMO) a derivation of the unauthorised unpaid use of the copyrighted work of other human artists. Traditional film photography involved a lot of darkroom tricks! You can definitely reframe a shot with an enlarger, and it's also where "dodging" and "burning" effects/tools got their names. And of course, photography itself has been thought of as cheating - "real artists paint". I think using tools in general is OK, and we already seem to draw a line between art (the creativity) and craft (technically perfect oil painting) so that seems consistent with mainstream opinion. Using "AI" for stuff currently feels a lot more like curating than making though.
- guitarlimeo 3y ago
  TIL about those darkroom tricks! Thanks for bringing the distinction between art and craft, it's a good way to rephrase my points. My point indeed is in valuing the craftmanship in addition to the art. And with current AI generators, seeing "AI used" label in a product immediately lowers my expectations towards the craftmanship of that product. Also I'm building a traditional game with some new mechanics, so knowing that there are shortcuts now to building games like these makes me uneasy, as the craft of what was once appreciated can now be undervalued. Though I probably just need to swallow the truth.